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and it hits me oh my gosh this is that

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triangle

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you know there's explanation for

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everything that occurred in the

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Rendlesham forest incident that doesn't

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involve aliens at all it was completely

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silent it comes right over our heads

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it's so a classic flying-saucer really

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standing in the clearing he turned over

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to my father held his hand and he looked

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welcome to podcast UFO for our live show

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we're live every Wednesday at 8 p.m.

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Eastern Standard Time on podcast UFO

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calm during the show feel free to

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participate live in our chat room and

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don't forget to Like us on our very

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active Facebook page hello and welcome

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to the show I'm Martin Willis your host

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and we have Alejandro Rojas coming up in

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just a minute with the news our guest

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this evening you probably never heard of

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him his name is dr. George Gaines I

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spoke to him about another matter and

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his story is so incredible I decided to

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have him on as a guest I like having

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people on that are not like in the

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mainstream guest lineups so this this

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guy is you're gonna really enjoy the

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show I'll tell you that well last week I

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had to end the show early and for those

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of you out there who have gotten to know

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me you know that I am a big animal lover

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and I am totally in love with my dog who

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collapsed during the show last week and

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he has congestive heart failure but he

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is okay he was we raced off to the

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emergency vet he was in oxygen for

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several hours but anyway he's doing okay

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but thank you for all the email and all

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your concern out there it means a lot to

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me

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so peanut is still with us and with that

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I will bring on Alejandro Rojas who met

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him how you doing I am a big peanut fan

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that's right medically brought him out

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to Arizona here he doing better yeah he

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hung out yeah he's a cool little guy he

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is so were

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life I forgot to know my gosh yes we are

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live this is this is nerve-racking it is

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and also for those of you who support

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the show I forgot to mention this thank

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you very much

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if you can't support the show and want

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to hear the whole show live every

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Wednesday night from 8:00 to 10:00 p.m.

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Eastern Standard Time on podcast UFO

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calm or PS and radio dark matter digital

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network a plays the show as a podcast on

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Thursdays from 10:00 to midnight so

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Alejandro I hear you have some scorching

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heat out there in Arizona uh yeah I mean

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it's been pretty consistent about a

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hundred and ten ish or a couple weeks

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now at least so yeah it's been warm

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amazing I don't know how you do it I

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know it's the dry heat as they say but

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yeah yeah that's just

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you live in air-conditioning right dry

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heat will kill you just as quickly I

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think probably mm-hmm so yeah always in

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the a/c because otherwise you will die

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well it's kind of like if you've seen

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it's like that movie what was that one

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where they go to Mars and it's Arnold

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Schwarzenegger oh yes I was like get

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your bleep to Mars I'm not sure I don't

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think you allow cussing on the show so I

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can use the real word yes we are safe

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for work here yes remember that scene at

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the end where like he's out on the

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surface of Mars and his eyes are bulging

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out oh yeah it's really big that's

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that's what it'll happen to you out here

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yeah if you're in the Sun for too long

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you know I can't believe people lived

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without air-conditioning out there and

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so I know amazing well you know what and

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and there's people who work out there

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like I am I'm super busy like right now

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because I'm closing on my house I'm

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getting a new house built it's gonna be

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done tomorrow or the next day whoa and

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but there are all of those home builders

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as people building homes all day long

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out in that heat and

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I don't know how they do it they get an

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early start but it's still you know it

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for me right when I get up not that I'm

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an early bird but I mean it's still hot

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it like eight o'clock so yeah it's warm

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someone just wrote in the message board

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Alejandro that they they miss your show

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but you did a show right it just came

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out right I did a show recently with

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Morgan Bell who is the Florida straight

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state director for move on so I just

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posted that yesterday it was a little

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late because of all the home paperwork

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stuff I had to do a half-day Monday so I

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couldn't get it up Monday as usual but

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yes I do have a new show up all of this

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and some vacation has meant that I

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haven't been able to do a couple shows

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in the last few weeks so yeah go check

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it out it's a great show it was a lot of

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fun we're talking about the upcoming

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MUFON symposium which is at the end of

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next month

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I'll be speaking there and but we talked

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about all of the other really great

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speakers who will be there some of whom

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don't go to lectures or conferences

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often that I think are really

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interesting so we talked about that and

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other things at Florida move on it's

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working on that other people probably

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are not aware of

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Morgan was also part of the homeland

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security video from Puerto Rico the

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group that investigated that so we

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talked a little bit about that also but

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I've had Morgan and others with that

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group on to talk about that in more

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depth you know before we move on to two

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news I just I just want to tell you I

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had who's the guy with the bow tie I'm

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just drawing a blank

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rich Hoffman yes he was on a couple

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weeks ago and we talked about that case

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and I've mentioned to him you know Mark

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Dantonio thinks it's a balloon and but

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what Mark doesn't really know is that

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they they were there was a lot that led

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up to this sighting in other words it

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was the object was going at high speed

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you know there's a lot of data involved

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in this that makes it such a strange

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case yeah

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mark admittedly has not

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completely finished his analysis of that

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video because it's a lot of work it took

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the seu group two years to do it mark

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often will take the data available to

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him

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meaning the video data to analyze the

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video itself this particular video

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because it was on a military a camera

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system which kept recorded a lot of

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telemetry gives you a lot of data and

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his initial idea was that it probably is

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a balloon and he has that's his theory

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now he admits he's got to do more work

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to prove that and demonstrate it but it

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marks an expert mark knows video well

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however I just feel rare which is rare

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in this case we have even higher experts

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we have people who work on these

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particular systems and they have a lot

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of compelling arguments such as a

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balloons not going to be that hot the

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the balloon is really dark indicating a

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very hot object much hotter than a

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balloon right mm-hmm and the thing when

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it like splits after it goes for the

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water I mean there's just a lot of yeah

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things now interesting enough the radar

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the expert of that system he is he

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agrees with mark that the speed of the

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object is a little bit difficult to

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determine based off of the video and he

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also says it's difficult to necessarily

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determine what happened at the end

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whether it went in and out of the water

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like it appears to do however the SDU

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group you know does have some

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interesting data to show that it did do

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that and that it was moving quickly so

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yeah there's a lot of interesting

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aspects to that video yeah now I guess

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you're we're going to talk about the

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news and we haven't done what again it's

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just Oh

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UFO news oh that's right yeah okay yeah

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I know this has been good so but it has

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anything let's see you and I just talked

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the other day any

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going out there oh I'm doing that

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awkward thing again

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okay yes there is and you can't stop me

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because it's a live show

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but anyway yeah there are some

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interesting stories that have been

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posted lately both of these come from

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Roger Marsh the director of

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communications were MUFON and he posts

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stories of course on open mindset TV and

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the latest are a couple one of them is a

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sighting from July 19th it was at 2:00

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p.m. now there's no photos or videos

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with this one however it was a

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reddish-brown object that they said was

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hotdogs shaped and they felt that this

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thing might have been a creature they

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said it was making a swimming motion in

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the air similar to an eel so they don't

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think it was a drone but they think

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possibly it was some sort of creature so

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that's kind of interesting they saw this

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while they were driving on the highway

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but yeah kind of a interesting little

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story there now there are others Trevor

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James constable most famous for hit the

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space critters and thinking that maybe

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some UFOs are actually living beings and

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there's also the story of a Bonny's

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which is a name that i'm a moose on and

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some others gave too long UFO looking

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objects however the majority of those

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videos look to be strings of balloons

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like the wedding arches where they have

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all these balloons in a string and I was

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even at his conference went and bless

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their hearts these investigators who

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were showing the video they're like it

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looks a lot like balloons you zoom in

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and it looks exactly like balloons but

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we think maybe it's weird and it's like

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well that's just not convincing enough

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however more interesting perhaps is a

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video from Virginia which was taken on

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July 24th at 8:55 p.m. it's also a fun

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video because you hear these women in

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the car and they're like oh my gosh what

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is that what is that

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and

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this configuration of lights in a

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triangle goes over their car now it

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looks like a conventional craft however

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there is a red light in the middle that

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is blinking so it this one hasn't been

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investigated it's a short video so I'd

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recommend people take a look at it a

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very clear video this thing was going

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right overhead and I don't know that

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conventional aircraft have a red

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blinking light in the middle so that

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would be kind of weird some people have

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said well maybe it's a hang glider or

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something like that but yeah interesting

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video that these people took just just a

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couple days ago now it was this posted

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by Roger Marsh as well it was so that

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means it's in the hands of MUFON has

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just not been investigated yet exactly

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at the investigation is underway and

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back he notes that their star team is

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looking into it so and the star team are

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kind of like the the more seasoned and

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expert investigators right now did you

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say anything about a drone or has anyone

272
00:12:26,530 --> 00:12:25,220
talked about the possibility no one has

273
00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:26,540
really this thing doesn't look like a

274
00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:28,810
drone it looks too large to be a drone

275
00:12:34,630 --> 00:12:31,490
so yeah you'll have to check out the

276
00:12:38,410 --> 00:12:34,640
video and it seems to be moving over a

277
00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:38,420
pretty vast distance so nobody's really

278
00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:41,090
gone with drone on this one but if you

279
00:12:47,500 --> 00:12:43,850
want to be the guy that you know lays

280
00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:47,510
down a few dollars on drone no go for it

281
00:12:51,910 --> 00:12:48,890
well you haven't seen the video see that

282
00:12:53,710 --> 00:12:51,920
maybe you're right I don't know no just

283
00:12:56,650 --> 00:12:53,720
with your description I'll I'll take

284
00:12:58,390 --> 00:12:56,660
your word on this one yeah so it is it

285
00:13:00,940 --> 00:12:58,400
is interesting so I know Roger was

286
00:13:03,910 --> 00:13:00,950
excited about this one so we'll see what

287
00:13:06,190 --> 00:13:03,920
it turns out to be like when we have

288
00:13:09,550 --> 00:13:06,200
these sort of videos I half expect

289
00:13:12,100 --> 00:13:09,560
soon after I post it for someone to say

290
00:13:14,380 --> 00:13:12,110
I know what it is and they figure it out

291
00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:14,390
because that often happens which i think

292
00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:16,130
is great that's where the great things

293
00:13:20,860 --> 00:13:19,250
is kind of crowdsourcing looking into

294
00:13:21,610 --> 00:13:20,870
these things some people don't like to

295
00:13:24,220 --> 00:13:21,620
do that because

296
00:13:26,860 --> 00:13:24,230
like someone's gonna debunk it and I

297
00:13:28,510 --> 00:13:26,870
know it's an alien but I like to do that

298
00:13:29,890 --> 00:13:28,520
because then everybody can put their

299
00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:29,900
heads together to figure out what

300
00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:32,210
something is and if it can withstand

301
00:13:37,750 --> 00:13:34,130
that sort of scrutiny then you have

302
00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:37,760
something truly mysterious so nobody has

303
00:13:42,310 --> 00:13:40,250
though yet come back and said hey I know

304
00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:42,320
what that is so so you're talking about

305
00:13:47,550 --> 00:13:45,410
this posting on the Facebook page where

306
00:13:50,829 --> 00:13:47,560
a lot of people look over these

307
00:13:53,829 --> 00:13:50,839
sightings is that which on or right on

308
00:13:56,290 --> 00:13:53,839
the website they make comments on all of

309
00:13:59,980 --> 00:13:56,300
these places yeah kind of on the

310
00:14:02,710 --> 00:13:59,990
internet anywhere on the Internet well

311
00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:02,720
yeah there's a lot of people looking at

312
00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:06,650
the Internet luckily that's for sure

313
00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:08,570
I guess well you know we're close to

314
00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:10,370
being out of time did you have another

315
00:14:14,370 --> 00:14:12,890
story there was I know there was some

316
00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:14,380
entry a couple of interesting ones

317
00:14:21,490 --> 00:14:18,770
there's so many interesting stories we

318
00:14:25,030 --> 00:14:21,500
do have what we have some older stories

319
00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:25,040
that we posted as well we posted some

320
00:14:30,519 --> 00:14:28,850
photographs from Italy from 1972 this is

321
00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:30,529
one of the videos that we do where we

322
00:14:35,650 --> 00:14:33,130
take some old pictures out of our

323
00:14:37,449 --> 00:14:35,660
archives and typically these are

324
00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:37,459
pictures that are you know before

325
00:14:41,230 --> 00:14:40,370
Photoshop and that have some sort of

326
00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:41,240
history because they've been

327
00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:43,130
investigated and shared those pictures

328
00:14:49,300 --> 00:14:45,410
and their investigation so we've got

329
00:14:53,769 --> 00:14:49,310
that and also one of the more famous or

330
00:14:56,230 --> 00:14:53,779
at least it used to be UFO landing cases

331
00:14:59,350 --> 00:14:56,240
this was investigated by Ted Phillips

332
00:15:03,130 --> 00:14:59,360
who's known for that sort of thing this

333
00:15:05,980 --> 00:15:03,140
was in Davos Kansas in 1971 where a

334
00:15:09,790 --> 00:15:05,990
young man was outside with his dog and

335
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:09,800
they saw he cording you know this

336
00:15:15,250 --> 00:15:13,010
mushroom shaped object come fly in land

337
00:15:19,390 --> 00:15:15,260
in their yard and fly away and there was

338
00:15:23,019 --> 00:15:19,400
a ring left on the ground this it's a

339
00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:23,029
controversial case but and also these

340
00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:25,010
guys won some money and this is kind of

341
00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:26,690
a neat story and I have a picture

342
00:15:33,730 --> 00:15:30,530
embedded there of this panel the

343
00:15:35,049 --> 00:15:33,740
National Enquirer was actually giving

344
00:15:39,489 --> 00:15:35,059
out a war

345
00:15:41,829 --> 00:15:39,499
it's for the best UFO cases no and they

346
00:15:44,289 --> 00:15:41,839
had a panel of investigators who would

347
00:15:47,409 --> 00:15:44,299
look at these cases and choose them and

348
00:15:49,389 --> 00:15:47,419
this one was chosen and you know there

349
00:15:52,209 --> 00:15:49,399
is some debate even by one of the

350
00:15:54,189 --> 00:15:52,219
scientists who was on that board that

351
00:15:56,679 --> 00:15:54,199
perhaps they were just trying to get

352
00:16:00,489 --> 00:15:56,689
that award and it was reward and it was

353
00:16:03,189 --> 00:16:00,499
not a genuine Wow incident never heard

354
00:16:06,759 --> 00:16:03,199
that side of the story I know it was a

355
00:16:09,399 --> 00:16:06,769
farm and this ring was left on the

356
00:16:12,009 --> 00:16:09,409
ground they took pictures of the ring I

357
00:16:14,439 --> 00:16:12,019
have think the woman something happened

358
00:16:17,169 --> 00:16:14,449
when the mother and father came out to

359
00:16:20,769 --> 00:16:17,179
take the picture the mother well there's

360
00:16:22,929 --> 00:16:20,779
a suspected missing time element and two

361
00:16:26,199 --> 00:16:22,939
mothers but it's very typical of an

362
00:16:30,339 --> 00:16:26,209
in-depth open minds TV story like this

363
00:16:33,219 --> 00:16:30,349
one to have aspects in the the in-depth

364
00:16:37,539 --> 00:16:33,229
research that we do of the case that

365
00:16:40,479 --> 00:16:37,549
you've never heard before that's good no

366
00:16:41,139 --> 00:16:40,489
thanks so much so yeah no problem my

367
00:16:43,239 --> 00:16:41,149
pleasure

368
00:16:45,069 --> 00:16:43,249
yeah and thanks for being live I know

369
00:16:46,179 --> 00:16:45,079
it's awful hard for you to do because

370
00:16:48,179 --> 00:16:46,189
you're trying to get out of the office

371
00:16:51,489 --> 00:16:48,189
and good luck with your closing tomorrow

372
00:16:53,019 --> 00:16:51,499
yeah thanks man you have a great one I

373
00:16:55,299 --> 00:16:53,029
hope you have a great show I'm really

374
00:16:57,999 --> 00:16:55,309
interested in your guest tonight and his

375
00:17:00,009 --> 00:16:58,009
sighting it sounds really cool so you

376
00:17:02,229 --> 00:17:00,019
have a good evening and thank you very

377
00:17:02,619 --> 00:17:02,239
much thank you all right talk to you

378
00:17:05,980 --> 00:17:02,629
next week

379
00:17:09,189 --> 00:17:05,990
talk to you later all right so our guest

380
00:17:12,789 --> 00:17:09,199
this evening is dr. W George Gaines he

381
00:17:14,559 --> 00:17:12,799
grew up in Pensacola Florida and he's

382
00:17:16,929 --> 00:17:14,569
lived and worked throughout the United

383
00:17:20,739 --> 00:17:16,939
States and Europe and we're going to

384
00:17:23,319 --> 00:17:20,749
talk about a sighting had an encounter

385
00:17:26,230 --> 00:17:23,329
he had when he was very young and what

386
00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:26,240
followed after that and welcome to the

387
00:17:30,999 --> 00:17:29,450
show George well thanks Martin I'm

388
00:17:33,489 --> 00:17:31,009
pleased to be with you tonight

389
00:17:36,190 --> 00:17:33,499
thank you now you and I it's funny you

390
00:17:40,659 --> 00:17:36,200
and I talked on the phone about a whole

391
00:17:43,149 --> 00:17:40,669
nother subject and I came clean and told

392
00:17:46,810 --> 00:17:43,159
you I did a show on UFOs that's how our

393
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:46,820
conversation start it right yeah

394
00:17:50,230 --> 00:17:48,650
and so

395
00:17:53,860 --> 00:17:50,240
can you give a little bit of background

396
00:17:56,020 --> 00:17:53,870
and and also you're you know you've

397
00:17:58,590 --> 00:17:56,030
you've had a professional career and all

398
00:18:01,840 --> 00:17:58,600
that and you know it's interesting how

399
00:18:05,340 --> 00:18:01,850
this encounter probably changed your way

400
00:18:09,150 --> 00:18:05,350
of thinking didn't it it certainly did

401
00:18:12,220 --> 00:18:09,160
and let me just begin by saying that

402
00:18:14,860 --> 00:18:12,230
much of the story that I'll tell tonight

403
00:18:18,850 --> 00:18:14,870
has been reconstructed over a long

404
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:18,860
period of time a lot of what I'm going

405
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:23,450
to tell I didn't know at the time but

406
00:18:29,700 --> 00:18:26,330
it's things that I have found out since

407
00:18:31,930 --> 00:18:29,710
then by doing research and follow-up so

408
00:18:34,030 --> 00:18:31,940
people might wonder well did you know

409
00:18:35,860 --> 00:18:34,040
this at the time and the answer is no of

410
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:35,870
course I didn't know I was a 12 year old

411
00:18:42,870 --> 00:18:39,050
kid all I knew is what happened that

412
00:18:46,299 --> 00:18:42,880
night and you know as an adult I have

413
00:18:48,549 --> 00:18:46,309
tried to follow this as best as I could

414
00:18:52,060 --> 00:18:48,559
and it's only in recent years that I was

415
00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:52,070
able to learn more about deciding oh you

416
00:18:58,030 --> 00:18:56,210
actually learned more now is this so

417
00:19:01,660 --> 00:18:58,040
this why don't why don't you go into the

418
00:19:06,549 --> 00:19:01,670
story how the whole encounter began in

419
00:19:15,330 --> 00:19:06,559
the whole situation sure well we go back

420
00:19:19,419 --> 00:19:15,340
to July the 23rd 1956 Pensacola Florida

421
00:19:24,370 --> 00:19:19,429
Pensacola at the time and still is the

422
00:19:29,260 --> 00:19:24,380
cradle of Naval Aviation it's there are

423
00:19:31,750 --> 00:19:29,270
many bases there that are were there

424
00:19:35,110 --> 00:19:31,760
back in the 50s and probably even more

425
00:19:38,500 --> 00:19:35,120
than there are today at least a half a

426
00:19:41,410 --> 00:19:38,510
dozen basis where Naval aircraft flew in

427
00:19:45,180 --> 00:19:41,420
and out regularly I was born in

428
00:19:48,310 --> 00:19:45,190
Pensacola my father was a naval aviator

429
00:19:51,940 --> 00:19:48,320
during the war and also an instructor

430
00:19:55,380 --> 00:19:51,950
and then he ended up flying heavy

431
00:19:58,540 --> 00:19:55,390
bombers in World War two out of England

432
00:20:01,660 --> 00:19:58,550
for for the Navy

433
00:20:02,500 --> 00:20:01,670
not too many Navy pilots flew heavy

434
00:20:04,870 --> 00:20:02,510
bombers

435
00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:04,880
out of England in World War two but my

436
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:07,970
dad was one of those and was fortunate

437
00:20:14,710 --> 00:20:12,050
enough to to survive I'll come back to

438
00:20:17,650 --> 00:20:14,720
him a little bit later because he's an

439
00:20:18,790 --> 00:20:17,660
interesting figure in in his own right

440
00:20:22,330 --> 00:20:18,800
mm-hmm

441
00:20:25,710 --> 00:20:22,340
so you know I grew up in an environment

442
00:20:30,250 --> 00:20:25,720
of being extremely familiar with

443
00:20:35,290 --> 00:20:30,260
aircraft in the sky day night and and I

444
00:20:38,650 --> 00:20:35,300
prided myself as a young aviation into

445
00:20:41,410 --> 00:20:38,660
enthusiast I mean my goal was to become

446
00:20:46,420 --> 00:20:41,420
a Marine Corps pilot one day that never

447
00:20:50,170 --> 00:20:46,430
happened but I was very very interested

448
00:20:53,530 --> 00:20:50,180
in aircraft and could identify any any

449
00:20:58,930 --> 00:20:53,540
aircraft by type and model or and so

450
00:21:01,660 --> 00:20:58,940
forth and and and I was also interested

451
00:21:03,100 --> 00:21:01,670
in UFOs I'll just say that right up

452
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:03,110
front

453
00:21:10,180 --> 00:21:07,250
I remember at a very tender age when the

454
00:21:12,430 --> 00:21:10,190
Roswell incident was first publicized I

455
00:21:17,070 --> 00:21:12,440
remember how excited my mother got about

456
00:21:20,290 --> 00:21:17,080
it and she you know told me about it and

457
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:20,300
from from the earliest times I can

458
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:23,450
remember I was interested in astronomy

459
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:28,250
in the stars and aircraft and through

460
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:30,890
just simply through what I would call

461
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:34,490
logic I was convinced in my own mind

462
00:21:40,540 --> 00:21:38,090
that that we were not alone but I'd

463
00:21:42,940 --> 00:21:40,550
never seen anything and was always

464
00:21:45,900 --> 00:21:42,950
thought of looking but never really saw

465
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:45,910
anything other than what was obvious

466
00:21:51,610 --> 00:21:49,610
aircraft flying at night George hang on

467
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:51,620
just a second there can we before we

468
00:21:56,530 --> 00:21:54,050
move on from this I wanted to ask you

469
00:21:59,800 --> 00:21:56,540
because you don't hear a lot about

470
00:22:02,350 --> 00:21:59,810
people talking about Roswell when it

471
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:02,360
happened you know so I just wanted to

472
00:22:07,030 --> 00:22:04,970
touch on that a little bit you you know

473
00:22:11,130 --> 00:22:07,040
I understand that you know the news went

474
00:22:13,870 --> 00:22:11,140
out and it was in papers everywhere and

475
00:22:15,580 --> 00:22:13,880
you know it was publicized and then it

476
00:22:15,769 --> 00:22:15,590
was you know the weather the balloon the

477
00:22:18,349 --> 00:22:15,779
net

478
00:22:19,789 --> 00:22:18,359
stay and then nobody talked about it for

479
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:19,799
for many many years

480
00:22:27,889 --> 00:22:23,369
so do you you you remember hearing about

481
00:22:28,999 --> 00:22:27,899
that and you you probably heard the next

482
00:22:32,180 --> 00:22:29,009
day that it was just a weather balloon

483
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:32,190
but did you remember that

484
00:22:38,060 --> 00:22:35,369
in your childhood and as you got older

485
00:22:41,330 --> 00:22:38,070
and then when it resurfaced in the late

486
00:22:43,430 --> 00:22:41,340
1980s you said oh yeah or something like

487
00:22:46,070 --> 00:22:43,440
that how did that all how did that it oh

488
00:22:50,389 --> 00:22:46,080
yeah I mean it was it was it was a very

489
00:22:53,599 --> 00:22:50,399
powerful early memory I remember a great

490
00:22:56,299 --> 00:22:53,609
deal about my early childhood it's it's

491
00:23:00,889 --> 00:22:56,309
not the the blur that some people have

492
00:23:03,769 --> 00:23:00,899
but I'm fortunate to have have some very

493
00:23:06,379 --> 00:23:03,779
clear memories I remember when world war

494
00:23:11,269 --> 00:23:06,389
ii ended and i was very small at the

495
00:23:13,430 --> 00:23:11,279
time and but but I remember the Roswell

496
00:23:15,889 --> 00:23:13,440
incident being in the paper I don't

497
00:23:18,289 --> 00:23:15,899
remember reading about it but I know my

498
00:23:22,639 --> 00:23:18,299
mother read about it and and then when

499
00:23:24,979 --> 00:23:22,649
they came up with the debunking story my

500
00:23:27,829 --> 00:23:24,989
mother was quite a skeptic and she says

501
00:23:31,999 --> 00:23:27,839
I think they've just made that up I

502
00:23:34,399 --> 00:23:32,009
think it's a cover-up and and so that's

503
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:34,409
my earliest recollection of Roswell and

504
00:23:39,940 --> 00:23:36,570
then of course when it can't it's been

505
00:23:43,249 --> 00:23:39,950
back in the news you know several times

506
00:23:46,009 --> 00:23:43,259
that you know I guess I always believed

507
00:23:50,239 --> 00:23:46,019
it was just a cover-up by the government

508
00:23:55,969 --> 00:23:50,249
to shield us from the truth

509
00:23:58,159 --> 00:23:55,979
so that was my attitude so at the time

510
00:24:01,369 --> 00:23:58,169
of the sighting I would say that I was

511
00:24:04,339 --> 00:24:01,379
certainly receptive and anything but a

512
00:24:06,529 --> 00:24:04,349
skeptic but I was not a child that was

513
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:06,539
subject to wild imaginations

514
00:24:14,659 --> 00:24:09,450
I was very scientific in my orientation

515
00:24:17,389 --> 00:24:14,669
and you know have had a good career as a

516
00:24:20,769 --> 00:24:17,399
behavioral scientist and and so I

517
00:24:25,909 --> 00:24:20,779
consider myself a pretty cold-blooded

518
00:24:29,340 --> 00:24:25,919
objective observer so the the way this

519
00:24:31,470 --> 00:24:29,350
happened was it was a hot it was a hot

520
00:24:32,909 --> 00:24:31,480
summer night and I had a little

521
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:32,919
girlfriend that lived down the street

522
00:24:42,750 --> 00:24:38,770
and her parents invited me and and her

523
00:24:44,789 --> 00:24:42,760
to go out to the airport and of course

524
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:44,799
you might say well go to the airport

525
00:24:50,460 --> 00:24:48,250
what is that well in Pensacola in 1956

526
00:24:53,970 --> 00:24:50,470
that was about the most exciting thing

527
00:24:56,549 --> 00:24:53,980
for for kids to do was to go out to the

528
00:24:59,190 --> 00:24:56,559
airport and wait for the occasional

529
00:25:00,659 --> 00:24:59,200
aircraft to land because then you could

530
00:25:03,390 --> 00:25:00,669
see him come up and you could feel the

531
00:25:06,029 --> 00:25:03,400
propwash and all that and see the people

532
00:25:10,590 --> 00:25:06,039
getting off and people getting on it was

533
00:25:12,690 --> 00:25:10,600
a very exciting thing to do so we went

534
00:25:14,460 --> 00:25:12,700
out to the airport and I remember that

535
00:25:17,039 --> 00:25:14,470
her mother and father were not

536
00:25:18,990 --> 00:25:17,049
particularly interested in and hanging

537
00:25:22,409 --> 00:25:19,000
around with us they were in the coffee

538
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:22,419
shop there having I guess

539
00:25:28,529 --> 00:25:24,730
coffee and pie or whatever they were

540
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:28,539
drinking and so my little girlfriend and

541
00:25:34,350 --> 00:25:31,330
I went out to the fence and the fence

542
00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:34,360
was you know this is not like an airport

543
00:25:40,409 --> 00:25:36,370
today I mean it's just a chain-link

544
00:25:42,779 --> 00:25:40,419
fence and you could I can remember you

545
00:25:44,340 --> 00:25:42,789
know putting my fingers on it and you

546
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:44,350
know holding onto the fence and kind of

547
00:25:50,159 --> 00:25:46,570
leaning back and forth and so we were

548
00:25:54,899 --> 00:25:50,169
just looking for aircraft to to come in

549
00:25:56,940 --> 00:25:54,909
and land and as it turned out my

550
00:26:01,890 --> 00:25:56,950
girlfriend was a year older than me she

551
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:01,900
was 13 and she she had to wear glasses

552
00:26:05,850 --> 00:26:03,490
for distance

553
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:05,860
and but she didn't have him on that

554
00:26:09,570 --> 00:26:07,690
night I guess because she was hoping

555
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:09,580
that they you know I might try to kiss

556
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:12,490
her well that that was so far from my

557
00:26:16,710 --> 00:26:14,890
mind as a 12 year old I mean I just

558
00:26:19,230 --> 00:26:16,720
wasn't about to do anything like that

559
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:19,240
but but she didn't you know with being

560
00:26:24,210 --> 00:26:21,250
you know a young lady she was slightly

561
00:26:26,669 --> 00:26:24,220
vain and wanted to appear very very

562
00:26:30,930 --> 00:26:26,679
attractive which she was and still is

563
00:26:35,340 --> 00:26:30,940
and and so we were looking at the fence

564
00:26:37,890 --> 00:26:35,350
and looking up at the moon which was not

565
00:26:40,610 --> 00:26:37,900
a crescent moon but it wasn't a quarter

566
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:40,620
moon either it was somewhere in between

567
00:26:46,020 --> 00:26:42,850
and there were some

568
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:46,030
stars that were very very close to the

569
00:26:52,140 --> 00:26:49,330
moon and I commented to us it looking

570
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:52,150
look at those stars there right next to

571
00:26:56,940 --> 00:26:55,210
the moon man so we looked at him for a

572
00:26:59,430 --> 00:26:56,950
while and she said yeah yeah I see him

573
00:27:04,520 --> 00:26:59,440
and and in fact she really didn't see

574
00:27:08,790 --> 00:27:04,530
anything so my one witness was was

575
00:27:12,060 --> 00:27:08,800
worthless and and so I noticed that one

576
00:27:14,550 --> 00:27:12,070
of the stars seemed to be getting bigger

577
00:27:16,530 --> 00:27:14,560
and bigger I said wow I said look at

578
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:16,540
that that's that could be an airplane

579
00:27:23,010 --> 00:27:19,810
coming in and but but it was stationary

580
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:23,020
just never moved never moved it got

581
00:27:30,810 --> 00:27:26,410
bigger and bigger and all of a sudden it

582
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:30,820
got so big that it divided into two what

583
00:27:36,990 --> 00:27:33,730
appeared to be stars I said holy smokes

584
00:27:41,070 --> 00:27:37,000
look at that they're two of them and and

585
00:27:43,980 --> 00:27:41,080
so they remain stationary for at least

586
00:27:47,970 --> 00:27:43,990
five or six minutes and without moving

587
00:27:49,860 --> 00:27:47,980
but there is but one became two and then

588
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:49,870
I thought I said I believe they're

589
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:52,210
moving to the south because we were

590
00:27:58,500 --> 00:27:56,170
looking eastward and I said yes yes look

591
00:28:01,560 --> 00:27:58,510
there they're both moving together and

592
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:01,570
then then they began to move apart where

593
00:28:07,140 --> 00:28:05,170
one went up and the other remained

594
00:28:10,590 --> 00:28:07,150
stationary more or less flying along the

595
00:28:12,990 --> 00:28:10,600
horizon and so this this really got my

596
00:28:15,570 --> 00:28:13,000
juices going because I'd never seen

597
00:28:19,740 --> 00:28:15,580
anything quite like this and then the

598
00:28:23,580 --> 00:28:19,750
one on top accelerated rapidly and then

599
00:28:26,610 --> 00:28:23,590
took off straight up just like it was

600
00:28:30,360 --> 00:28:26,620
shot out of a cannon and I'd never seen

601
00:28:33,180 --> 00:28:30,370
any aircraft do anything like that

602
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:33,190
and I was just stunned to see it and

603
00:28:38,940 --> 00:28:36,250
then the second one the lower one kept

604
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:38,950
moving straight along the horizon to

605
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:40,810
toward the south toward the Gulf of

606
00:28:47,010 --> 00:28:44,410
Mexico and then it took off at the same

607
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:47,020
rate of speed and just it was just a

608
00:28:55,050 --> 00:28:50,050
blur I mean it wasn't even fast it just

609
00:28:56,989 --> 00:28:55,060
just streaked up and was gone so that

610
00:29:02,549 --> 00:28:56,999
was the signing

611
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:02,559
and all I can say is that on the way

612
00:29:06,029 --> 00:29:04,570
home you know we told her parents what

613
00:29:07,859 --> 00:29:06,039
we had seen and they seemed very

614
00:29:10,859 --> 00:29:07,869
interested and believe just because they

615
00:29:15,210 --> 00:29:10,869
knew I was not the kind of young man who

616
00:29:19,919 --> 00:29:15,220
made up silly stories and but when I got

617
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:19,929
home I told my mother about it and you

618
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:21,730
know it just was

619
00:29:26,759 --> 00:29:24,490
she said well we'll make sure you write

620
00:29:29,899 --> 00:29:26,769
down everything so you'll remember it

621
00:29:32,940 --> 00:29:29,909
and and so I did in and I was in my room

622
00:29:37,590 --> 00:29:32,950
making notes and writing it out and I

623
00:29:40,169 --> 00:29:37,600
was so frightened by what I saw it

624
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:40,179
wasn't I mean there was the initial

625
00:29:46,139 --> 00:29:42,970
exhilaration but upon reflection I

626
00:29:51,749 --> 00:29:46,149
realized that I had seen something that

627
00:29:54,269 --> 00:29:51,759
was absolutely mind-blowing and I was I

628
00:29:56,210 --> 00:29:54,279
was afraid I don't know what I was

629
00:29:59,580 --> 00:29:56,220
afraid of I guess I was afraid that

630
00:30:03,629 --> 00:29:59,590
maybe they saw me and knew that I saw

631
00:30:06,299 --> 00:30:03,639
them and and that they somehow I had a

632
00:30:11,879 --> 00:30:06,309
feeling that they must have known that I

633
00:30:15,389 --> 00:30:11,889
saw this and and so I made detailed

634
00:30:17,730 --> 00:30:15,399
notes on everything and as a young

635
00:30:19,470 --> 00:30:17,740
scientist and later when I was in high

636
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:19,480
school I won the science fair

637
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:22,690
it's a sophomore so that gives you an

638
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:24,850
idea of the kind of notes that I was

639
00:30:31,529 --> 00:30:28,450
making even at 12 years of age so I made

640
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:31,539
very very detailed notes and so the next

641
00:30:37,409 --> 00:30:33,610
day I told my mother I said mother I

642
00:30:39,779 --> 00:30:37,419
said I'm gonna write a report and send

643
00:30:42,690 --> 00:30:39,789
it to the Air Force and she says oh no

644
00:30:45,570 --> 00:30:42,700
no you you don't want to do that I said

645
00:30:47,730 --> 00:30:45,580
why not she says oh no she said that

646
00:30:51,899 --> 00:30:47,740
would just create problems you don't

647
00:30:55,310 --> 00:30:51,909
want to do that don't do that so I went

648
00:30:57,869 --> 00:30:55,320
ahead and wrote up a letter and I

649
00:31:01,049 --> 00:30:57,879
consolidated my notes and put it in the

650
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:01,059
best language that I could and I wrote I

651
00:31:10,259 --> 00:31:06,490
addressed it to UFO investigations Eglin

652
00:31:13,349 --> 00:31:10,269
Air Force Base Florida and May

653
00:31:16,229 --> 00:31:13,359
we didn't have ZIP codes in 1956 and

654
00:31:17,940 --> 00:31:16,239
Eglin was you know figured the post

655
00:31:19,979 --> 00:31:17,950
office knew where that was because it's

656
00:31:22,589 --> 00:31:19,989
not really in a city it's just ugly an

657
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:22,599
Air Force Base and I dropped it in the

658
00:31:27,599 --> 00:31:25,570
mail and didn't think anything more

659
00:31:32,159 --> 00:31:27,609
about it hmm

660
00:31:36,449 --> 00:31:32,169
now less than a week later it was a

661
00:31:39,149 --> 00:31:36,459
Saturday morning the phone rings and so

662
00:31:40,889 --> 00:31:39,159
my job at the house since my parents

663
00:31:44,969 --> 00:31:40,899
were divorced so I live with my mother

664
00:31:46,739 --> 00:31:44,979
and my grandmother and and and so my job

665
00:31:51,599 --> 00:31:46,749
as the man of the house was to always

666
00:31:55,169 --> 00:31:51,609
answer the phone which I did and a man

667
00:31:58,560 --> 00:31:55,179
on the other end said amass speak to

668
00:32:01,949 --> 00:31:58,570
George Gaines and I said this is he he

669
00:32:05,489 --> 00:32:01,959
said is this the same George that lives

670
00:32:08,310 --> 00:32:05,499
at such-and-such an address I said yes

671
00:32:11,129 --> 00:32:08,320
it is and he says it's the same George

672
00:32:14,579 --> 00:32:11,139
who sent a report to the airforce a few

673
00:32:18,419 --> 00:32:14,589
days ago about what you had seen and I

674
00:32:22,729 --> 00:32:18,429
took a deep breath yes and said yes it

675
00:32:25,169 --> 00:32:22,739
is he says well great he said George

676
00:32:29,789 --> 00:32:25,179
what are you doing this morning I said

677
00:32:32,069 --> 00:32:29,799
and so I immediately said oh well I'm

678
00:32:34,469 --> 00:32:32,079
I'm going I'm going out I'm going to the

679
00:32:37,199 --> 00:32:34,479
pool to swim because I was a collegiate

680
00:32:39,239 --> 00:32:37,209
swimmer and high school swimmer and so I

681
00:32:42,599 --> 00:32:39,249
was you know we're going to go to

682
00:32:47,399 --> 00:32:42,609
practice and I'm going to swim practice

683
00:32:50,279 --> 00:32:47,409
and he said George he said you just sit

684
00:32:53,909 --> 00:32:50,289
tight we'll be right over

685
00:32:58,499 --> 00:32:53,919
and I remember those words so clearly

686
00:32:59,159 --> 00:32:58,509
George you just sit tight we'll be right

687
00:33:02,159 --> 00:32:59,169
over

688
00:33:05,099 --> 00:33:02,169
it didn't say can we come by how do you

689
00:33:09,299 --> 00:33:05,109
do anything we're coming over so I

690
00:33:10,739 --> 00:33:09,309
realized then that I was in a jam and I

691
00:33:12,839 --> 00:33:10,749
had to explain to my mother

692
00:33:15,269 --> 00:33:12,849
very quickly what had happened I said

693
00:33:19,499 --> 00:33:15,279
mother mother I said she's who was that

694
00:33:21,629 --> 00:33:19,509
I said ah it was a nice man you remember

695
00:33:23,190 --> 00:33:21,639
the I said I was thinking about

696
00:33:23,890 --> 00:33:23,200
submitting a report to the Air Force

697
00:33:28,030 --> 00:33:23,900
she's

698
00:33:30,370 --> 00:33:28,040
you didn't I said yes I did and I said

699
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:30,380
they're coming over she says oh my god

700
00:33:33,220 --> 00:33:32,690
she says now we're in trouble we're in

701
00:33:37,380 --> 00:33:33,230
trouble

702
00:33:39,130 --> 00:33:37,390
I mean this was 1956 and you know if

703
00:33:42,670 --> 00:33:39,140
things were different then

704
00:33:44,830 --> 00:33:42,680
is it a different world and so you

705
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:44,840
didn't file reports or anything unless

706
00:33:52,810 --> 00:33:48,770
you had good reason and I thought I had

707
00:33:55,330 --> 00:33:52,820
good reason so you know I told my

708
00:33:58,480 --> 00:33:55,340
grandmother and and she says oh lordy

709
00:34:01,090 --> 00:33:58,490
she says you're in trouble now I said

710
00:34:03,460 --> 00:34:01,100
well you know I I told I told the truth

711
00:34:06,250 --> 00:34:03,470
I didn't make anything up it's all true

712
00:34:09,820 --> 00:34:06,260
it's all true and so while we were

713
00:34:12,100 --> 00:34:09,830
talking I mean this this couldn't have

714
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:12,110
been more than five minutes from when I

715
00:34:16,330 --> 00:34:14,330
hung up maybe not that long my

716
00:34:17,590 --> 00:34:16,340
grandmother who used to sit in the

717
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:17,600
living room looking out the window she

718
00:34:23,380 --> 00:34:19,210
says oh here they come

719
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:23,390
and so my mother and I went to the door

720
00:34:32,889 --> 00:34:26,330
and she you know song they pulled up in

721
00:34:35,020 --> 00:34:32,899
in a four-door 1955 or 56 I couldn't

722
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:35,030
tell the exact model I always thought it

723
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:40,970
was a 55 white Cadillac air conditioned

724
00:34:47,139 --> 00:34:44,090
it was absolutely spotless and I

725
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:47,149
remember thinking why isn't it gray and

726
00:34:55,659 --> 00:34:52,490
why doesn't it have military stencils on

727
00:34:58,450 --> 00:34:55,669
it saying US Air Force or US Navy or

728
00:35:02,140 --> 00:34:58,460
something but it was a civilian car but

729
00:35:04,530 --> 00:35:02,150
it was a beautiful white Cadillac and it

730
00:35:06,430 --> 00:35:04,540
was air-conditioned and that was very

731
00:35:08,410 --> 00:35:06,440
unusual because we didn't have air

732
00:35:11,500 --> 00:35:08,420
conditioning in our home in Florida and

733
00:35:16,240 --> 00:35:11,510
and I never knew anybody who had an

734
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:16,250
air-conditioned car until in 1958 so

735
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:19,370
this was this was quite a rare event and

736
00:35:25,510 --> 00:35:23,210
then out of the car come to air force

737
00:35:28,810 --> 00:35:25,520
officers men who were dressed as air

738
00:35:33,910 --> 00:35:28,820
force officers who come up and greet me

739
00:35:36,070 --> 00:35:33,920
and my mother on the front porch so why

740
00:35:37,810 --> 00:35:36,080
don't I just take a quick pause and say

741
00:35:40,210 --> 00:35:37,820
you know

742
00:35:42,730 --> 00:35:40,220
have any questions that you wanna ask me

743
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:42,740
at this point before we get into the

744
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:47,450
interview no not really it's up you and

745
00:35:51,820 --> 00:35:50,210
I had kind of gone over this in our talk

746
00:35:54,190 --> 00:35:51,830
I think it was I don't know maybe four

747
00:35:58,380 --> 00:35:54,200
or four or five months ago so it's

748
00:36:01,000 --> 00:35:58,390
almost like new coming at me but I

749
00:36:02,830 --> 00:36:01,010
couldn't remember the encounter of you

750
00:36:07,090 --> 00:36:02,840
know what what your sighting was to

751
00:36:09,130 --> 00:36:07,100
begin with but just the fact that they

752
00:36:13,690 --> 00:36:09,140
came to see you that quickly is pretty

753
00:36:15,790 --> 00:36:13,700
pretty interesting well yes I mean I

754
00:36:19,930 --> 00:36:15,800
didn't think think through it very

755
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:19,940
carefully at the time I was just really

756
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:22,610
scared that they were coming to talk to

757
00:36:27,220 --> 00:36:24,530
me because I didn't know know what to

758
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:27,230
expect but the two the two gentlemen

759
00:36:31,210 --> 00:36:29,090
came in and they showed my mother some

760
00:36:34,030 --> 00:36:31,220
identification in addition to their

761
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:34,040
their uniforms and she welcomed them and

762
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:36,890
said please please come in they said

763
00:36:44,470 --> 00:36:39,770
well we would like to talk to George

764
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:44,480
about what what he saw and and so the

765
00:36:53,350 --> 00:36:47,930
two were it was a captain and a

766
00:36:55,870 --> 00:36:53,360
lieutenant and the the captain did not

767
00:36:58,900 --> 00:36:55,880
have what I would call a military

768
00:37:03,160 --> 00:36:58,910
bearing he seemed to be sweating a

769
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:03,170
little bit it was hot and and so he

770
00:37:08,050 --> 00:37:05,810
unbuttoned his blouse when he sat down

771
00:37:10,750 --> 00:37:08,060
and crossed his legs and made himself

772
00:37:15,370 --> 00:37:10,760
very much at home he just seemed very

773
00:37:18,990 --> 00:37:15,380
comfortable and then the lieutenant was

774
00:37:24,460 --> 00:37:19,000
just the opposite he was buttoned down

775
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:24,470
he had on a I think what you call almost

776
00:37:29,710 --> 00:37:27,650
an Eisenhower jacket as opposed to the

777
00:37:33,010 --> 00:37:29,720
the captain with the blouse you know it

778
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:33,020
was very tight around the waist and he

779
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:34,930
had a you know tie on and he had a

780
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:36,170
crew-cut

781
00:37:44,140 --> 00:37:40,610
dark hair with salt and pepper the

782
00:37:46,630 --> 00:37:44,150
captain had had longer hair and and just

783
00:37:49,660 --> 00:37:46,640
seemed more he seemed more like a

784
00:37:51,390 --> 00:37:49,670
civilian dressed up in an Air Force

785
00:37:55,999 --> 00:37:51,400
uniform

786
00:37:59,939 --> 00:37:56,009
and and so they begin the the

787
00:38:03,599 --> 00:37:59,949
questioning in the living room and so

788
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:03,609
the captain then asked the lieutenant to

789
00:38:08,519 --> 00:38:06,130
go out and you know once he agreed to do

790
00:38:10,439 --> 00:38:08,529
it he sent to lieutenant out to the car

791
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:10,449
and he opened the trunk up and brought

792
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:14,130
all sorts of stuff in he brought in

793
00:38:21,569 --> 00:38:18,249
charts that you know were like a movie

794
00:38:22,529 --> 00:38:21,579
screen with flip charts he brought in a

795
00:38:25,919 --> 00:38:22,539
movie screen

796
00:38:28,829 --> 00:38:25,929
a movie projector and what I remember

797
00:38:32,459 --> 00:38:28,839
most vividly was a reel-to-reel woollen

798
00:38:35,969 --> 00:38:32,469
sack tape recorder where everything in

799
00:38:41,489 --> 00:38:35,979
the interview was being taped and that

800
00:38:45,329 --> 00:38:41,499
thing just ran and ran and ran so they

801
00:38:48,839 --> 00:38:45,339
begin and I don't remember all of what

802
00:38:51,989 --> 00:38:48,849
what was said or what was asked but I do

803
00:38:53,789 --> 00:38:51,999
remember the the captain are the the

804
00:38:58,559 --> 00:38:53,799
lieutenant standing up like he was

805
00:39:00,569 --> 00:38:58,569
giving military military briefing and he

806
00:39:03,809 --> 00:39:00,579
had a pointer stick and he kept pointing

807
00:39:06,870 --> 00:39:03,819
you know to these these charts of the

808
00:39:09,539 --> 00:39:06,880
sky and and disc and he was using a lot

809
00:39:12,390 --> 00:39:09,549
of technical language like azimuth

810
00:39:14,339 --> 00:39:12,400
perigee Apogee and stuff that I really

811
00:39:16,289 --> 00:39:14,349
didn't what was not familiar with and

812
00:39:18,870 --> 00:39:16,299
the captain would would kind of

813
00:39:21,679 --> 00:39:18,880
interpret for him he says okay what the

814
00:39:24,809 --> 00:39:21,689
lieutenant is saying is is this George

815
00:39:27,539 --> 00:39:24,819
tell me more about how you you saw this

816
00:39:30,919 --> 00:39:27,549
and they of course had had my report

817
00:39:34,589 --> 00:39:30,929
there which they let me look at and

818
00:39:37,739 --> 00:39:34,599
about that time I'd say probably an hour

819
00:39:40,739 --> 00:39:37,749
into it my mother had gotten on the

820
00:39:43,620 --> 00:39:40,749
phone and called the parents of the

821
00:39:45,599 --> 00:39:43,630
young girl who was with me and this was

822
00:39:49,279 --> 00:39:45,609
it turned out to be a real embarrassment

823
00:39:54,989 --> 00:39:49,289
for her because she had nothing to add

824
00:39:58,829 --> 00:39:54,999
to it now she she had made up a report

825
00:40:01,289 --> 00:39:58,839
as well of what she didn't see and on

826
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:01,299
that report she doodled and drew a

827
00:40:06,930 --> 00:40:04,570
picture of like an alien coming

828
00:40:10,020 --> 00:40:06,940
out of a spaceship it's a cartoon-like

829
00:40:11,820 --> 00:40:10,030
and so when they came up there the

830
00:40:13,650 --> 00:40:11,830
captain saw that and he just he just

831
00:40:17,850 --> 00:40:13,660
grabbed it and took it out Randy said

832
00:40:19,950 --> 00:40:17,860
I'll take that it's so yeah you know he

833
00:40:23,130 --> 00:40:19,960
had that she stayed around for about

834
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:23,140
fifteen minutes and and listened and and

835
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:25,090
couldn't really add anything cuz you

836
00:40:28,950 --> 00:40:26,410
didn't see anything

837
00:40:31,490 --> 00:40:28,960
and then then they let asked her to to

838
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:31,500
go ahead you know she could go back home

839
00:40:37,350 --> 00:40:34,810
so then they got out some films and

840
00:40:40,590 --> 00:40:37,360
showed me films now these some of the

841
00:40:43,530 --> 00:40:40,600
films I remember having seen before and

842
00:40:47,270 --> 00:40:43,540
it was like you know lights and it was

843
00:40:51,030 --> 00:40:47,280
daytime scenes of maybe four or five

844
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:51,040
lights flying together or what could be

845
00:40:54,990 --> 00:40:53,530
interpreted as UFOs and they kept asking

846
00:40:56,580 --> 00:40:55,000
me is this what you saw you see

847
00:40:59,670 --> 00:40:56,590
something like that I said well no no

848
00:41:02,310 --> 00:40:59,680
mine mine weren't doing that it was just

849
00:41:05,730 --> 00:41:02,320
too and you know I can't I really stuck

850
00:41:08,100 --> 00:41:05,740
to my story because Martin that that's

851
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:08,110
the only story I had and I didn't know

852
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:10,690
what else to do other than stick stick

853
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:14,650
to the story now did so this is kind of

854
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:17,410
curious they were showing you films yes

855
00:41:23,420 --> 00:41:20,770
they had films and were there's some

856
00:41:25,470 --> 00:41:23,430
really good films too of some UFOs oh

857
00:41:30,330 --> 00:41:25,480
they were they were decent

858
00:41:33,930 --> 00:41:30,340
they were decent you know of stuff some

859
00:41:37,380 --> 00:41:33,940
stuff I'd seen in in in books before or

860
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:37,390
magazines that had been published so I

861
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:39,970
kept thinking well I've seen all this

862
00:41:42,720 --> 00:41:40,450
before

863
00:41:44,340 --> 00:41:42,730
he said you ever seen this I said well

864
00:41:47,370 --> 00:41:44,350
I've seen it I've seen something like

865
00:41:52,290 --> 00:41:47,380
that in a magazine but some some I had

866
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:52,300
not seen and so after we got through

867
00:41:56,430 --> 00:41:54,130
with the movies I guess it was around

868
00:41:59,670 --> 00:41:56,440
lunchtime well these guys didn't stop

869
00:42:01,470 --> 00:41:59,680
for lunch and and my mother and

870
00:42:04,650 --> 00:42:01,480
grandmother particularly my grandmother

871
00:42:06,720 --> 00:42:04,660
kept she was very nosy and kept walking

872
00:42:08,910 --> 00:42:06,730
into the room and walking out of the

873
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:08,920
room and in and out like they thought I

874
00:42:12,900 --> 00:42:11,170
was going to be molested or something so

875
00:42:15,690 --> 00:42:12,910
finally they told my mother I said look

876
00:42:18,420 --> 00:42:15,700
we'd like to question George now in

877
00:42:19,829 --> 00:42:18,430
private okay do you have another place

878
00:42:24,059 --> 00:42:19,839
we can go and she said yeah we have a

879
00:42:27,660 --> 00:42:24,069
den small den we went in there and set

880
00:42:31,829 --> 00:42:27,670
up shop and they closed and locked the

881
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:31,839
door just keep them out so the the

882
00:42:35,940 --> 00:42:34,210
interrogation you know and my grandma

883
00:42:38,579 --> 00:42:35,950
said well the poor child hasn't eaten he

884
00:42:43,349 --> 00:42:38,589
said well we'll let him have something

885
00:42:45,750 --> 00:42:43,359
to eat when we're finished yeah so we

886
00:42:48,299 --> 00:42:45,760
went into the den and they had they

887
00:42:50,220 --> 00:42:48,309
brought in some scrapbooks what I call

888
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:50,230
scrapbooks they were I guess notebook

889
00:42:56,430 --> 00:42:53,530
big big notebooks big ones and so he

890
00:43:00,569 --> 00:42:56,440
says ok I'm going to show you some some

891
00:43:04,380 --> 00:43:00,579
pictures and so these were you know

892
00:43:07,290 --> 00:43:04,390
pictures of UFOs photos photographs some

893
00:43:09,210 --> 00:43:07,300
sketches and you know on you know that

894
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:09,220
it looked like this it looked like I

895
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:10,690
said wow it's pretty interesting there I

896
00:43:13,740 --> 00:43:12,130
said no it didn't he said look like I

897
00:43:17,069 --> 00:43:13,750
know it didn't look like that I'm

898
00:43:20,069 --> 00:43:17,079
telling you it was just a light in the

899
00:43:23,190 --> 00:43:20,079
sky just a very bright light in the sky

900
00:43:27,210 --> 00:43:23,200
it was moving slow and then it moved

901
00:43:31,020 --> 00:43:27,220
really fast so went on and on and you

902
00:43:34,319 --> 00:43:31,030
know went through several of these books

903
00:43:36,329 --> 00:43:34,329
and finally there was another book there

904
00:43:39,720 --> 00:43:36,339
and I figured once we get through the

905
00:43:43,859 --> 00:43:39,730
last book these guys will leave because

906
00:43:45,539 --> 00:43:43,869
I was really really getting tired of you

907
00:43:47,670 --> 00:43:45,549
know telling the same story over and

908
00:43:50,370 --> 00:43:47,680
over again and then they would stop me

909
00:43:53,789 --> 00:43:50,380
and say okay George let's go back tell

910
00:43:56,970 --> 00:43:53,799
me from the very beginning what you saw

911
00:44:00,780 --> 00:43:56,980
and so they must have had me repeat my

912
00:44:02,940 --> 00:44:00,790
story four or five times during this

913
00:44:04,230 --> 00:44:02,950
whole episode do you think they were

914
00:44:06,599 --> 00:44:04,240
trying to see if you would trip up a

915
00:44:08,910 --> 00:44:06,609
little or something yeah I think they

916
00:44:12,059 --> 00:44:08,920
just you know were you know it's like

917
00:44:13,980 --> 00:44:12,069
the cops I mean they're trying you know

918
00:44:18,930 --> 00:44:13,990
as you tell the same story over and over

919
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:18,940
again and so finally then the captain

920
00:44:28,980 --> 00:44:23,410
began to make suggestions and he said

921
00:44:31,809 --> 00:44:28,990
now when the craft got close could you

922
00:44:35,379 --> 00:44:31,819
see any portholes

923
00:44:38,469 --> 00:44:35,389
I said I don't know how close he's got

924
00:44:44,019 --> 00:44:38,479
but it wasn't close enough that I could

925
00:44:48,249 --> 00:44:44,029
see any detail he says okay so when the

926
00:44:50,859 --> 00:44:48,259
craft got close could you see any more

927
00:44:55,149 --> 00:44:50,869
anybody looking out of a porthole I said

928
00:44:58,269 --> 00:44:55,159
I just said no it it didn't get that

929
00:45:00,339 --> 00:44:58,279
close and then you know go on and then

930
00:45:02,919 --> 00:45:00,349
he'd come back said now George when the

931
00:45:05,319 --> 00:45:02,929
craft landed um

932
00:45:08,799 --> 00:45:05,329
did did a door open I said the craft

933
00:45:10,689 --> 00:45:08,809
didn't land I wish it had a hook you

934
00:45:13,389 --> 00:45:10,699
know I wish I could say it did but it

935
00:45:16,870 --> 00:45:13,399
didn't it just flew off and it flew off

936
00:45:19,059 --> 00:45:16,880
at a very high rate of speed so you know

937
00:45:22,509 --> 00:45:19,069
he went through all this highly

938
00:45:24,879 --> 00:45:22,519
suggestive questioning hmm and and

939
00:45:27,249 --> 00:45:24,889
finally you know I said oh no he's got

940
00:45:29,949 --> 00:45:27,259
to show me this last book I said are you

941
00:45:31,289 --> 00:45:29,959
going to show me what's in when are you

942
00:45:32,529 --> 00:45:31,299
going to show me what's in the last

943
00:45:34,959 --> 00:45:32,539
scrapbook

944
00:45:39,179 --> 00:45:34,969
he said well George you said you didn't

945
00:45:43,659 --> 00:45:39,189
see anybody right I said right I didn't

946
00:45:44,859 --> 00:45:43,669
he said well he says I'm I'm not so sure

947
00:45:49,659 --> 00:45:44,869
you did

948
00:45:52,839 --> 00:45:49,669
I said I didn't and he says well I'll

949
00:45:55,419 --> 00:45:52,849
show you what's in here anyhow and so

950
00:45:59,019 --> 00:45:55,429
when we went through this book this book

951
00:46:03,699 --> 00:45:59,029
was filled with pictures and sketches of

952
00:46:05,889 --> 00:46:03,709
aliens okay I mean ridiculous looking

953
00:46:07,599 --> 00:46:05,899
something I'd seen in comic books I said

954
00:46:10,389 --> 00:46:07,609
I've seen that that's anicon seen that

955
00:46:12,789 --> 00:46:10,399
in a comic book is okay next one and

956
00:46:15,039 --> 00:46:12,799
then then he showed me a picture I

957
00:46:17,620 --> 00:46:15,049
remember it very very distinctly because

958
00:46:21,459 --> 00:46:17,630
my eyes must have just lit up like a

959
00:46:26,709 --> 00:46:21,469
cheap pinball machine was a look like an

960
00:46:28,989 --> 00:46:26,719
alien laying on an examining table kind

961
00:46:32,499 --> 00:46:28,999
of like I guess when when I saw the

962
00:46:35,709 --> 00:46:32,509
alien autopsy you know movie I said whew

963
00:46:40,449 --> 00:46:35,719
that looks a lot like what the captain

964
00:46:42,249 --> 00:46:40,459
showed me I mean I was probably 40 or 50

965
00:46:44,079 --> 00:46:42,259
years old when I saw that for the first

966
00:46:45,050 --> 00:46:44,089
time and I said well I've seen that

967
00:46:47,450 --> 00:46:45,060
before so

968
00:46:50,330 --> 00:46:47,460
I asked him I said wool what is that

969
00:46:52,070 --> 00:46:50,340
real and he looked at me and kind of

970
00:46:56,180 --> 00:46:52,080
smiled he said does it look real to you

971
00:46:58,700 --> 00:46:56,190
I said it looks real to me is it and he

972
00:47:00,410 --> 00:46:58,710
just he just wouldn't answer and then

973
00:47:04,700 --> 00:47:00,420
when we got to the end of the book

974
00:47:06,950 --> 00:47:04,710
and he says okay George we're done thank

975
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:06,960
you so much thank my mother and it was

976
00:47:11,420 --> 00:47:08,850
about 3:00 in the clock three o'clock in

977
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:11,430
the afternoon and he in the lieutenant

978
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:19,410
got in there Cadillac and left now a lot

979
00:47:27,860 --> 00:47:23,090
of Reconstruction has gone on since then

980
00:47:30,860 --> 00:47:27,870
this was you know a long time ago the

981
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:30,870
the one thing that did was said as they

982
00:47:36,980 --> 00:47:32,850
were leaving my mother asked ask the

983
00:47:39,650 --> 00:47:36,990
captain did do you all investigate every

984
00:47:41,570 --> 00:47:39,660
sighting from a twelve-year-old boy you

985
00:47:44,810 --> 00:47:41,580
must be getting hundreds of these he

986
00:47:47,990 --> 00:47:44,820
says ma'am he says we get thousands of

987
00:47:50,450 --> 00:47:48,000
these reports he said but you know you

988
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:50,460
this report was very interesting to us

989
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:53,130
we wanted to talk to George because he

990
00:47:59,150 --> 00:47:55,410
was very thorough in his documentation

991
00:48:01,540 --> 00:47:59,160
we believed every word he said and to be

992
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:01,550
honest we had we had some corroborating

993
00:48:08,540 --> 00:48:05,970
information from other sources to

994
00:48:13,610 --> 00:48:08,550
corroborate the sighting so we wanted to

995
00:48:16,370 --> 00:48:13,620
hear his story and he said the only

996
00:48:18,860 --> 00:48:16,380
thing I would ask you is I would advise

997
00:48:21,170 --> 00:48:18,870
you I can't order you he said but I

998
00:48:26,390 --> 00:48:21,180
would advise you strongly never to

999
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:26,400
discuss this with anyone never actually

1000
00:48:30,350 --> 00:48:28,170
say this to you or was that to your

1001
00:48:33,950 --> 00:48:30,360
mother it was to my mother but I heard

1002
00:48:36,530 --> 00:48:33,960
it and you know and it was spoken really

1003
00:48:40,660 --> 00:48:36,540
to both of us and so I never discussed

1004
00:48:46,490 --> 00:48:40,670
it until I was probably in my late 40s

1005
00:48:49,690 --> 00:48:46,500
really Wow yeah I'm silent for over 30

1006
00:48:55,220 --> 00:48:49,700
years before I said anything about it

1007
00:48:56,900 --> 00:48:55,230
Wow and one of the things we left out

1008
00:48:58,820 --> 00:48:56,910
you're probably going to bring it up is

1009
00:49:03,320 --> 00:48:58,830
who one of the gentlemen

1010
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:03,330
were that's right I didn't know who

1011
00:49:12,110 --> 00:49:08,010
these guys were and in in the the late

1012
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:12,120
night of in the late nineteen now in the

1013
00:49:21,230 --> 00:49:17,490
late 1980s early 1990s of course we had

1014
00:49:26,090 --> 00:49:21,240
the famous Gulf Breeze sightings in in

1015
00:49:30,110 --> 00:49:26,100
the Pensacola area and my oldest

1016
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:30,120
daughter was very very interested in in

1017
00:49:36,470 --> 00:49:32,690
this and she became an active member of

1018
00:49:39,650 --> 00:49:36,480
the MUFON chapter there in Pensacola and

1019
00:49:41,180 --> 00:49:39,660
she begged me to come to a meeting and

1020
00:49:43,340 --> 00:49:41,190
tell the story and I said Beth I'm not

1021
00:49:46,220 --> 00:49:43,350
going to do it I'm just not going to do

1022
00:49:48,140 --> 00:49:46,230
it and so finally it was a Christmas

1023
00:49:50,390 --> 00:49:48,150
time and she said would you at least

1024
00:49:53,150 --> 00:49:50,400
come to the Christmas party they're

1025
00:49:54,710 --> 00:49:53,160
having a nice Christmas party so I went

1026
00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:54,720
to the party and it was really really a

1027
00:50:02,300 --> 00:49:56,610
nice affair a lot of people were there

1028
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:02,310
and one of the guys I knew asked me

1029
00:50:06,770 --> 00:50:04,770
about it she said he said your daughter

1030
00:50:08,660 --> 00:50:06,780
told me something about this hiding I

1031
00:50:10,820 --> 00:50:08,670
said yeah he said they're a couple of

1032
00:50:13,010 --> 00:50:10,830
Air Force guys here who would really

1033
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:13,020
like to meet you and talk to you so

1034
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:17,010
these guys were probably 20 years older

1035
00:50:22,510 --> 00:50:19,050
than me I guess at the time so they must

1036
00:50:25,430 --> 00:50:22,520
have been probably late 60s early 70s

1037
00:50:27,980 --> 00:50:25,440
and and so I learned a great deal about

1038
00:50:32,030 --> 00:50:27,990
them and I told them the story they said

1039
00:50:34,730 --> 00:50:32,040
well number one Eglin Air Force Base had

1040
00:50:38,180 --> 00:50:34,740
no investigating authority these guys

1041
00:50:40,910 --> 00:50:38,190
did not come from from Eglin number two

1042
00:50:43,240 --> 00:50:40,920
they most likely came down from

1043
00:50:45,310 --> 00:50:43,250
wright-patterson Air Force Base in Ohio

1044
00:50:50,570 --> 00:50:45,320
because they were the primary

1045
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:50,580
investigators and number three they may

1046
00:50:57,250 --> 00:50:52,650
not even have been Air Force they may

1047
00:51:00,260 --> 00:50:57,260
have been CIA or NSA because a lot of

1048
00:51:02,620 --> 00:51:00,270
the investigators were wearing military

1049
00:51:06,980 --> 00:51:02,630
uniforms during these investigations

1050
00:51:10,970 --> 00:51:06,990
that went on in Project Blue Book in the

1051
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:10,980
later years so all of that is partially

1052
00:51:15,150 --> 00:51:11,890
true

1053
00:51:18,299 --> 00:51:15,160
because I found out through the internet

1054
00:51:21,900 --> 00:51:18,309
by looking at pictures when I saw the

1055
00:51:25,109 --> 00:51:21,910
picture of Captain Edward ruppelt who

1056
00:51:28,979 --> 00:51:25,119
was the head of blue book until 1953 I

1057
00:51:32,370 --> 00:51:28,989
said there he is that's who that's who

1058
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:32,380
came to see me I would know him anywhere

1059
00:51:41,609 --> 00:51:37,650
slightly pudgy chubby cheeks just uh

1060
00:51:44,190 --> 00:51:41,619
just a charming individual to talk talk

1061
00:51:46,910 --> 00:51:44,200
to and and he must have been a special

1062
00:51:49,710 --> 00:51:46,920
guy because it was for a captain

1063
00:51:53,039 --> 00:51:49,720
somebody with the rank of captain to

1064
00:51:57,450 --> 00:51:53,049
have that kind of authority he must have

1065
00:51:59,339 --> 00:51:57,460
been just a remarkable officer I mean he

1066
00:52:02,700 --> 00:51:59,349
had a distinguished combat record in

1067
00:52:04,559 --> 00:52:02,710
Korea and so forth and you know

1068
00:52:08,190 --> 00:52:04,569
distinguished himself in every way but

1069
00:52:10,859 --> 00:52:08,200
but he was evidently a superb manager

1070
00:52:17,549 --> 00:52:10,869
and that's why he was given the Bluebook

1071
00:52:19,559 --> 00:52:17,559
assignment now he had retired in 1953 he

1072
00:52:23,190 --> 00:52:19,569
was no longer in the Air Force he was

1073
00:52:27,509 --> 00:52:23,200
out and he took a job as a consulting

1074
00:52:29,339 --> 00:52:27,519
engineer aeronautical engineer with the

1075
00:52:31,890 --> 00:52:29,349
North American Aviation out in

1076
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:31,900
California and was living in California

1077
00:52:38,150 --> 00:52:36,249
at the time in 1956 so do you think them

1078
00:52:42,140 --> 00:52:38,160
all the way to Florida to talk to you

1079
00:52:45,900 --> 00:52:42,150
yes yes I do

1080
00:52:49,489 --> 00:52:45,910
amazing B he collaborated with Blue Book

1081
00:52:52,769 --> 00:52:49,499
after he left and I don't know how many

1082
00:52:57,589 --> 00:52:52,779
investigations he did but now his book

1083
00:53:01,529 --> 00:52:57,599
was first published in August of 1956 so

1084
00:53:04,170 --> 00:53:01,539
he was already working on a revision and

1085
00:53:08,069 --> 00:53:04,180
you know he may have wanted this

1086
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:08,079
material for his revision how he found

1087
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:10,450
out about the sighting I'm sure that you

1088
00:53:15,779 --> 00:53:13,210
know he was in regular contact with the

1089
00:53:19,259 --> 00:53:15,789
Blue Book staff the lieutenant turned

1090
00:53:21,989 --> 00:53:19,269
out to be a lieutenant Robert Olson I

1091
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:21,999
don't know if Olson had retired or not

1092
00:53:28,130 --> 00:53:25,770
he was a little bit younger but

1093
00:53:32,810 --> 00:53:28,140
I found his photograph on the internet

1094
00:53:34,580 --> 00:53:32,820
in with with ruffled and they were there

1095
00:53:36,740 --> 00:53:34,590
together looking at some charts and I

1096
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:36,750
said whoa there's the second guy I know

1097
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:40,530
him who will so that I only found out

1098
00:53:46,250 --> 00:53:43,410
their identities perhaps six months ago

1099
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:46,260
when I was doing this research and I was

1100
00:53:53,090 --> 00:53:49,890
thrilled to do this because you know I

1101
00:53:55,790 --> 00:53:53,100
always wondered who were these guys who

1102
00:53:59,110 --> 00:53:55,800
are these guys that came came to see me

1103
00:54:02,210 --> 00:53:59,120
now maybe maybe ruffled was in

1104
00:54:04,220 --> 00:54:02,220
wright-patterson on an assignment when

1105
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:04,230
something happened when he got the

1106
00:54:11,330 --> 00:54:06,570
report and decided to fly down to

1107
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:11,340
Pensacola but they they didn't drive

1108
00:54:15,580 --> 00:54:13,290
over I mean they they probably flew into

1109
00:54:18,470 --> 00:54:15,590
Naas Pensacola and

1110
00:54:22,130 --> 00:54:18,480
got the rental car and from an admiral

1111
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:22,140
or something and came on out came on at

1112
00:54:31,580 --> 00:54:28,050
to see me but captain ruppelt had

1113
00:54:37,190 --> 00:54:31,590
suffered a heart attack earlier that

1114
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:37,200
year and I suspect that to me he looked

1115
00:54:43,610 --> 00:54:39,930
he just looked uncomfortable like he was

1116
00:54:45,710 --> 00:54:43,620
sweating and and and he he never went

1117
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:45,720
out to the car to bring anything in he

1118
00:54:51,710 --> 00:54:48,210
just stayed in a chair the whole time

1119
00:54:53,930 --> 00:54:51,720
and Olson went out and got everything

1120
00:54:56,690 --> 00:54:53,940
and brought it in of course he was the

1121
00:54:58,970 --> 00:54:56,700
lower ranking officer and and I guess

1122
00:55:04,070 --> 00:54:58,980
that would explain it but it seemed that

1123
00:55:07,190 --> 00:55:04,080
he was a bit fatigued and then of course

1124
00:55:12,620 --> 00:55:07,200
we we know tragically captain ruppelt

1125
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:12,630
died of a heart attack in in 1960 his

1126
00:55:21,470 --> 00:55:16,170
wife lived out in California I believe

1127
00:55:25,130 --> 00:55:21,480
she passed away the late night 1990s or

1128
00:55:28,910 --> 00:55:25,140
right around 2000 captain ruppelt had a

1129
00:55:31,670 --> 00:55:28,920
brother who lived in the Sarasota area

1130
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:31,680
not far from me but he passed I believe

1131
00:55:43,890 --> 00:55:38,450
in 2010 so edward ruffle

1132
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:43,900
was one heck of a fine officer

1133
00:55:53,470 --> 00:55:48,890
outstanding career raised in I believe

1134
00:55:58,420 --> 00:55:53,480
in in Nebraska or Iowa somewhere in in

1135
00:56:01,630 --> 00:55:58,430
the Corn Belt area and just was just an

1136
00:56:06,790 --> 00:56:01,640
outstanding young man and student in

1137
00:56:08,530 --> 00:56:06,800
college and engineer you know when you

1138
00:56:12,790 --> 00:56:08,540
read about him you can't help but admire

1139
00:56:16,630 --> 00:56:12,800
him and and I certainly enjoyed my seven

1140
00:56:19,900 --> 00:56:16,640
or eight hours of working with him on on

1141
00:56:26,349 --> 00:56:19,910
this on this little project that I

1142
00:56:29,500 --> 00:56:26,359
created he was a total gentleman and and

1143
00:56:33,390 --> 00:56:29,510
and we developed really an excellent

1144
00:56:37,599 --> 00:56:33,400
rapport during that during that time

1145
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:37,609
captain or lieutenant Olsen was always

1146
00:56:44,020 --> 00:56:39,890
in the background so I never had much of

1147
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:44,030
a chance to develop a relationship with

1148
00:56:50,710 --> 00:56:47,690
him but but with ruffled it was it was

1149
00:56:52,809 --> 00:56:50,720
special and and like I said what the

1150
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:52,819
minute I saw his picture on the internet

1151
00:56:57,250 --> 00:56:55,490
I I didn't know who it was said that

1152
00:56:59,170 --> 00:56:57,260
that's the guy there he is

1153
00:57:05,859 --> 00:56:59,180
and then I did the background research

1154
00:57:08,950 --> 00:57:05,869
on him yeah and how about his book is

1155
00:57:12,900 --> 00:57:08,960
like one of the according to Alejandro

1156
00:57:15,730 --> 00:57:12,910
Rojas who was just on with the news he

1157
00:57:19,809 --> 00:57:15,740
thinks it's the best book on UFOs ever

1158
00:57:23,290 --> 00:57:19,819
written I would say it certainly was

1159
00:57:28,599 --> 00:57:23,300
he was amazingly forthcoming in the book

1160
00:57:31,930 --> 00:57:28,609
I mean he he didn't it was not an effort

1161
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:31,940
to debunk at all it was a very

1162
00:57:40,540 --> 00:57:36,650
open-minded objective look at it and he

1163
00:57:43,620 --> 00:57:40,550
went into a great deal to report on some

1164
00:57:49,359 --> 00:57:43,630
of the investigations that they had done

1165
00:57:51,630 --> 00:57:49,369
however the word got out through

1166
00:57:55,590 --> 00:57:51,640
channels that the

1167
00:57:58,200 --> 00:57:55,600
the government of the air force was not

1168
00:58:00,060 --> 00:57:58,210
pleased with the book at first they you

1169
00:58:02,450 --> 00:58:00,070
know said yeah yeah it's a very good

1170
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:02,460
book and all that but back-channel

1171
00:58:07,890 --> 00:58:05,170
information was delivered to ruppelt

1172
00:58:10,740 --> 00:58:07,900
that it was not something they were

1173
00:58:15,420 --> 00:58:10,750
happy with and they wanted him to put

1174
00:58:18,900 --> 00:58:15,430
out a revision and and so the revised

1175
00:58:22,380 --> 00:58:18,910
edition came out I think about a year

1176
00:58:28,110 --> 00:58:22,390
and a half later and in the revised

1177
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:28,120
edition he took a different view

1178
00:58:36,740 --> 00:58:34,450
he basically it was just one section at

1179
00:58:43,110 --> 00:58:36,750
the end where he just kind of said well

1180
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:43,120
it's just all imagination and then he

1181
00:58:49,980 --> 00:58:48,010
died in sixty now there's been you know

1182
00:58:52,410 --> 00:58:49,990
stuff on the internet some people that

1183
00:58:57,060 --> 00:58:52,420
knew him and live there said that one

1184
00:59:00,420 --> 00:58:57,070
one woman I think she may still be alive

1185
00:59:03,510 --> 00:59:00,430
she was 95 a couple of years ago said

1186
00:59:07,590 --> 00:59:03,520
that she was a neighbor of theirs and

1187
00:59:11,250 --> 00:59:07,600
that her husband and Ed rippled rode to

1188
00:59:12,930 --> 00:59:11,260
work together every day and what their

1189
00:59:16,020 --> 00:59:12,940
work was she said she didn't know

1190
00:59:19,380 --> 00:59:16,030
because they never ever discussed it she

1191
00:59:25,250 --> 00:59:19,390
said but she always believed in her

1192
00:59:34,620 --> 00:59:29,760
murdered and he did not die of natural

1193
00:59:39,180 --> 00:59:34,630
causes huh well you said earlier he had

1194
00:59:43,530 --> 00:59:39,190
a heart attack yes yeah had the heart

1195
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:43,540
attack in 56 and then fatal heart attack

1196
00:59:50,730 --> 00:59:48,730
or whatever in in 60 37 years old so he

1197
00:59:53,510 --> 00:59:50,740
was 32 years old when he had his first

1198
00:59:57,870 --> 00:59:53,520
heart attack which is very young very

1199
01:00:02,700 --> 00:59:57,880
very young yeah Wow amazing

1200
01:00:04,410 --> 01:00:02,710
so other his brother passed away I think

1201
01:00:05,220 --> 01:00:04,420
is slightly younger brother I think he

1202
01:00:09,349 --> 01:00:05,230
was well

1203
01:00:11,819 --> 01:00:09,359
in these upper 80s 87 yeah so it's just

1204
01:00:14,450 --> 01:00:11,829
there's longevity and his family but it

1205
01:00:21,270 --> 01:00:14,460
didn't happen with him

1206
01:00:25,380 --> 01:00:21,280
so have you now was this case part of

1207
01:00:28,170 --> 01:00:25,390
let's see was a grunt project what am I

1208
01:00:31,250 --> 01:00:28,180
thinking of it's in blue book it is in

1209
01:00:34,230 --> 01:00:31,260
blue book this case is yes yes it is now

1210
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:34,240
interestingly enough about five years

1211
01:00:41,069 --> 01:00:39,130
ago when I had attempted to go up to

1212
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:41,079
Montgomery Alabama where they had the

1213
01:00:47,700 --> 01:00:45,130
archives and when I finally got somebody

1214
01:00:51,540 --> 01:00:47,710
that could talk they said oh well that's

1215
01:00:55,260 --> 01:00:51,550
all now in Washington DC I said oh great

1216
01:00:57,599 --> 01:00:55,270
so I gave up on that but then I somehow

1217
01:01:01,470 --> 01:00:57,609
I found out that the archives were now

1218
01:01:03,060 --> 01:01:01,480
online and I found the what's called the

1219
01:01:06,300 --> 01:01:03,070
I'm not sure what the airforce

1220
01:01:09,770 --> 01:01:06,310
nomenclature is but it's one zero zero

1221
01:01:14,370 --> 01:01:09,780
seven three that's the form number I

1222
01:01:17,809 --> 01:01:14,380
guess they call it ten zero 73 all the

1223
01:01:21,030 --> 01:01:17,819
reports are filed on that form number I

1224
01:01:24,809 --> 01:01:21,040
actually found that and I wish that I

1225
01:01:27,780 --> 01:01:24,819
had made a copy of it but I didn't I

1226
01:01:30,150 --> 01:01:27,790
found it and read read the the report it

1227
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:30,160
was a brief synopsis but there were no

1228
01:01:36,030 --> 01:01:32,770
field notes or anything else attached

1229
01:01:39,300 --> 01:01:36,040
and the conclusion was that I had

1230
01:01:43,579 --> 01:01:39,310
witnessed it didn't give my name but it

1231
01:01:47,970 --> 01:01:43,589
said you know I think it's a 12 year old

1232
01:01:51,510 --> 01:01:47,980
Pensacola that I had witnessed a mid-air

1233
01:01:53,970 --> 01:01:51,520
refueling operation I thought that was a

1234
01:01:56,010 --> 01:01:53,980
pretty pretty clever way of explaining

1235
01:01:57,720 --> 01:01:56,020
it and and that would have that would

1236
01:02:05,069 --> 01:01:57,730
have worked fine except when the two

1237
01:02:07,950 --> 01:02:05,079
separated oh they don't do that so that

1238
01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:07,960
was the that was the explanation but but

1239
01:02:11,910 --> 01:02:09,730
no field notes were attached

1240
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:11,920
since that time I've gone back to the

1241
01:02:18,180 --> 01:02:14,290
blue back to blue book archives and I

1242
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:18,190
have searched exhaustively and all I can

1243
01:02:22,300 --> 01:02:18,770
find

1244
01:02:27,130 --> 01:02:22,310
is a reference to the date a reference

1245
01:02:30,610 --> 01:02:27,140
to just that there was a sighting and in

1246
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:30,620
Pensacola Florida that date and it says

1247
01:02:41,620 --> 01:02:38,570
case missing missing case missing how

1248
01:02:44,860 --> 01:02:41,630
about that so you actually saw it at one

1249
01:02:47,500 --> 01:02:44,870
time and then it just it's gone as God

1250
01:02:50,290 --> 01:02:47,510
is my witness I saw it and and showed it

1251
01:02:52,120 --> 01:02:50,300
to my wife and and and kids they all

1252
01:02:55,410 --> 01:02:52,130
they all saw it we all saw it read it

1253
01:02:58,480 --> 01:02:55,420
together so well that's kind of a downer

1254
01:03:00,520 --> 01:02:58,490
because you know at least they could

1255
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:00,530
have said it was unexplained but now I

1256
01:03:07,180 --> 01:03:05,090
mean that was the explanation which I

1257
01:03:11,860 --> 01:03:07,190
guess is plausible and they said that it

1258
01:03:14,620 --> 01:03:11,870
was a the refueling was over Tyndall Air

1259
01:03:17,140 --> 01:03:14,630
Force Base in Panama City which is about

1260
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:17,150
a hundred and five miles away by the

1261
01:03:28,300 --> 01:03:23,210
crow it's pretty far away to see lights

1262
01:03:31,390 --> 01:03:28,310
pretty pretty darn close so well

1263
01:03:33,310 --> 01:03:31,400
evidently they you know they had seen

1264
01:03:38,230 --> 01:03:33,320
something they'd get I don't know

1265
01:03:41,710 --> 01:03:38,240
whether it was radar visual civilian

1266
01:03:44,110 --> 01:03:41,720
military sighting but somebody had seen

1267
01:03:51,100 --> 01:03:44,120
something that really really tweaked

1268
01:03:55,090 --> 01:03:51,110
their interest the you know I've talked

1269
01:03:59,350 --> 01:03:55,100
to you know some some experts and back

1270
01:04:02,440 --> 01:03:59,360
in the 90s guys that are you know a part

1271
01:04:04,270 --> 01:04:02,450
of the regular talk show group and they

1272
01:04:07,630 --> 01:04:04,280
basically say well you know your

1273
01:04:09,850 --> 01:04:07,640
sighting is is nothing I mean all you

1274
01:04:12,850 --> 01:04:09,860
saw were night lights and that's nothing

1275
01:04:14,050 --> 01:04:12,860
that wouldn't have justified them coming

1276
01:04:17,740 --> 01:04:14,060
out there must have been some other

1277
01:04:19,870 --> 01:04:17,750
reason why they came out and when you

1278
01:04:30,310 --> 01:04:19,880
considered that it was a Drupal himself

1279
01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:30,320
and and Robert Olson yeah Olson two of

1280
01:04:36,870 --> 01:04:32,210
the the mainstays

1281
01:04:39,730 --> 01:04:36,880
in the organization that they came

1282
01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:39,740
almost three years after Roe Bolton was

1283
01:04:46,299 --> 01:04:42,890
out in a civilian you know he still had

1284
01:04:50,819 --> 01:04:46,309
his uniform I guess but Wow

1285
01:04:52,150 --> 01:04:50,829
I mean what what what what prompted it

1286
01:04:54,250 --> 01:04:52,160
now

1287
01:04:57,040 --> 01:04:54,260
you mentioned earlier that they had

1288
01:05:00,130 --> 01:04:57,050
there was some there was some

1289
01:05:05,109 --> 01:05:00,140
cooperation in other words uh someone

1290
01:05:07,030 --> 01:05:05,119
else had seen this obviously was did you

1291
01:05:11,260 --> 01:05:07,040
happen to notice was that noted anywhere

1292
01:05:15,190 --> 01:05:11,270
as well no you it wasn't and there was

1293
01:05:18,609 --> 01:05:15,200
no other sighting in the area around

1294
01:05:20,049 --> 01:05:18,619
those dates so it kind of make you

1295
01:05:21,490 --> 01:05:20,059
wonder if you're trying to put together

1296
01:05:26,309 --> 01:05:21,500
a puzzle pieces

1297
01:05:29,980 --> 01:05:26,319
maybe maybe someone saw the encounter

1298
01:05:31,900 --> 01:05:29,990
even the sighting even closer maybe

1299
01:05:35,020 --> 01:05:31,910
someone saw it earlier and there was a

1300
01:05:37,750 --> 01:05:35,030
landing trying to figure out why they

1301
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:37,760
would try to lead you into telling them

1302
01:05:47,140 --> 01:05:42,650
that the thing landed they were he was

1303
01:05:51,130 --> 01:05:47,150
very very leading in that regard and I

1304
01:05:54,819 --> 01:05:51,140
remember feeling great discomfort like I

1305
01:05:56,799 --> 01:05:54,829
should be telling him you know that it

1306
01:06:00,700 --> 01:05:56,809
had landed but I couldn't because it

1307
01:06:03,579 --> 01:06:00,710
hadn't I just I had to I had to stick to

1308
01:06:07,900 --> 01:06:03,589
my story which was the only story I had

1309
01:06:09,339 --> 01:06:07,910
which was what I saw mm-hmm now you

1310
01:06:12,549 --> 01:06:09,349
mentioned your you mentioned your

1311
01:06:14,589 --> 01:06:12,559
parents were divorced at that time but

1312
01:06:18,220 --> 01:06:14,599
if were you in touch with your father

1313
01:06:20,380 --> 01:06:18,230
did you talk to him about this only in

1314
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:20,390
later life and that's an interesting

1315
01:06:29,230 --> 01:06:24,490
part of the story I got to know my dad

1316
01:06:33,130 --> 01:06:29,240
really really well in in my 40s and and

1317
01:06:36,859 --> 01:06:33,140
we became great friends and oded to each

1318
01:06:45,319 --> 01:06:36,869
other up until the time of his death and

1319
01:06:49,670 --> 01:06:45,329
in the 90s but after after World War two

1320
01:06:53,539 --> 01:06:49,680
well but as I said my dad flew b-24s

1321
01:06:55,759 --> 01:06:53,549
heavy bombers over over England he was

1322
01:06:59,059 --> 01:06:55,769
not part of the 8th Air Force but flew

1323
01:07:01,579 --> 01:06:59,069
with the 8th Air Force those guys got to

1324
01:07:03,470 --> 01:07:01,589
fly 25 missions if they survived of

1325
01:07:06,170 --> 01:07:03,480
course I think the average was about six

1326
01:07:10,190 --> 01:07:06,180
or seven missions and then the pilots

1327
01:07:12,380 --> 01:07:10,200
you know that's how long they live I'm

1328
01:07:15,079 --> 01:07:12,390
not sure how many missions my dad flew

1329
01:07:20,900 --> 01:07:15,089
but he was there for a couple of years

1330
01:07:24,079 --> 01:07:20,910
and he didn't get to go home he he was

1331
01:07:28,130 --> 01:07:24,089
originally sent to Europe to fly

1332
01:07:32,150 --> 01:07:28,140
anti-submarine warfare but we had no

1333
01:07:40,569 --> 01:07:32,160
technology for doing that but at the end

1334
01:07:44,089 --> 01:07:40,579
of the war he was sent to Topeka Kansas

1335
01:07:47,029 --> 01:07:44,099
to a secret training operation where

1336
01:07:50,839 --> 01:07:47,039
they had developed I guess what we'd

1337
01:07:54,259 --> 01:07:50,849
call a laser-guided or smart bomb they

1338
01:07:57,979 --> 01:07:54,269
would drop three buoys and triangulate

1339
01:08:02,089 --> 01:07:57,989
on a submarine and so he told me he said

1340
01:08:05,870 --> 01:08:02,099
look he says you know I came home from

1341
01:08:07,849 --> 01:08:05,880
the war with a pocket full of medals and

1342
01:08:10,309 --> 01:08:07,859
he said but I have two accomplishments

1343
01:08:13,779 --> 01:08:10,319
that I was very proud of one I never

1344
01:08:16,939 --> 01:08:13,789
lost a crewman he was shot down twice

1345
01:08:20,570 --> 01:08:16,949
but crashed twice but never lost a

1346
01:08:22,700 --> 01:08:20,580
crewman and he said the second and what

1347
01:08:28,070 --> 01:08:22,710
I was most proud of was when I came back

1348
01:08:30,800 --> 01:08:28,080
from Kansas I think a German u-boat that

1349
01:08:33,050 --> 01:08:30,810
was this was after the war was over it

1350
01:08:38,090 --> 01:08:33,060
was a rogue u-boat he said I sunk a

1351
01:08:42,079 --> 01:08:38,100
u-boat and a PBY and he said we dropped

1352
01:08:44,030 --> 01:08:42,089
you know he said we were out we were

1353
01:08:49,370 --> 01:08:44,040
near the end of our mission we're

1354
01:08:51,019 --> 01:08:49,380
running low on fuel and we we got us we

1355
01:08:54,950 --> 01:08:51,029
spotted

1356
01:08:57,890 --> 01:08:54,960
periscope and so he said my co-pilot

1357
01:09:00,079 --> 01:08:57,900
says a bill it's let's head on back he

1358
01:09:03,019 --> 01:09:00,089
said no I can't he says there's a whole

1359
01:09:05,419 --> 01:09:03,029
flotilla of hospital ships going back he

1360
01:09:07,700 --> 01:09:05,429
says that u-boats going to have its way

1361
01:09:10,370 --> 01:09:07,710
with him if we don't stop it so he

1362
01:09:13,700 --> 01:09:10,380
dropped the three buoys and then got a

1363
01:09:16,309 --> 01:09:13,710
fix on the u-boat and dropped the bomb

1364
01:09:18,229 --> 01:09:16,319
that went or the torpedo that went to it

1365
01:09:20,149 --> 01:09:18,239
and they could actually hear it he says

1366
01:09:22,910 --> 01:09:20,159
I can hear the baffles collapsing I

1367
01:09:25,070 --> 01:09:22,920
could hear the screams on board and I

1368
01:09:29,780 --> 01:09:25,080
knew that we had sunk that u-boat

1369
01:09:31,280 --> 01:09:29,790
because then it went all quiet and he

1370
01:09:33,470 --> 01:09:31,290
said that's that's my proudest

1371
01:09:35,329 --> 01:09:33,480
accomplishment he says I said he said I

1372
01:09:36,919 --> 01:09:35,339
took a lot of lives with a lot of bombs

1373
01:09:39,320 --> 01:09:36,929
and people that didn't need to die I

1374
01:09:42,919 --> 01:09:39,330
said but I saved a lot of lives of

1375
01:09:45,019 --> 01:09:42,929
American GIs who were coming back so I

1376
01:09:48,499 --> 01:09:45,029
just offered that story to give you a

1377
01:09:51,950 --> 01:09:48,509
little insight into my dad he he was an

1378
01:09:56,479 --> 01:09:51,960
engineer as well and like captain

1379
01:09:58,820 --> 01:09:56,489
ruppelt and maybe I maybe I saw a little

1380
01:10:02,270 --> 01:09:58,830
bit of my dad and captain ruppelt or

1381
01:10:06,919 --> 01:10:02,280
kind of wanted that dad figure is why I

1382
01:10:09,649 --> 01:10:06,929
liked him so so much but in in having

1383
01:10:12,310 --> 01:10:09,659
adult conversation with my dad about it

1384
01:10:15,680 --> 01:10:12,320
I asked him I said standard did you ever

1385
01:10:18,859 --> 01:10:15,690
see anything when you were flying any

1386
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:18,869
any UFOs he says oh you mean Foo

1387
01:10:23,870 --> 01:10:21,570
Fighters uh-oh

1388
01:10:26,689 --> 01:10:23,880
he said yeah they flew very matter oh

1389
01:10:29,030 --> 01:10:26,699
they flew with us all the time I said

1390
01:10:30,620 --> 01:10:29,040
really he says oh yeah they on almost

1391
01:10:34,100 --> 01:10:30,630
every mission they were they were flying

1392
01:10:35,629 --> 01:10:34,110
with us I said well did they ever attack

1393
01:10:39,439 --> 01:10:35,639
or anything no no they just they just

1394
01:10:41,419 --> 01:10:39,449
they just flew like escorts and he was

1395
01:10:46,689 --> 01:10:41,429
very matter-of-fact about it just like

1396
01:10:49,729 --> 01:10:46,699
you know and so I later found out that

1397
01:10:53,060 --> 01:10:49,739
you know when working as a civilian at

1398
01:10:57,560 --> 01:10:53,070
Fort Rucker where he was chief of air

1399
01:11:00,439 --> 01:10:57,570
safety as a civilian he he actually we

1400
01:11:03,800 --> 01:11:00,449
believe can't prove we think he pretty

1401
01:11:06,680 --> 01:11:03,810
sure he worked for the CIA and

1402
01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:06,690
and I always wondered if you know with

1403
01:11:13,070 --> 01:11:11,250
his secret stuff that he was doing you

1404
01:11:15,680 --> 01:11:13,080
know he never left the military I mean

1405
01:11:19,190 --> 01:11:15,690
he was out of the military but he never

1406
01:11:22,280 --> 01:11:19,200
I think like had ruppelt you know he was

1407
01:11:25,820 --> 01:11:22,290
just part of that clandestine service

1408
01:11:28,190 --> 01:11:25,830
and never never really left so I

1409
01:11:30,230 --> 01:11:28,200
wondered if if you know when they saw my

1410
01:11:32,600 --> 01:11:30,240
name if you know if that if that

1411
01:11:34,730 --> 01:11:32,610
triggered you know you know what's this

1412
01:11:37,550 --> 01:11:34,740
is this guy this is the son of this guy

1413
01:11:41,900 --> 01:11:37,560
does he you know but but my mother said

1414
01:11:44,540 --> 01:11:41,910
it never came up you know with captain

1415
01:11:46,760 --> 01:11:44,550
ruppelt that he never asked you know

1416
01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:46,770
how's your husband doing or anything

1417
01:11:54,860 --> 01:11:51,330
like so that's probably you know a false

1418
01:11:55,640 --> 01:11:54,870
lead but but I often wondered if if that

1419
01:11:58,460 --> 01:11:55,650
were the case

1420
01:12:04,610 --> 01:11:58,470
well did I ask man I asked my dad also

1421
01:12:07,490 --> 01:12:04,620
as a dad I said if if UFOs are are real

1422
01:12:10,460 --> 01:12:07,500
and the government knows I said how can

1423
01:12:12,590 --> 01:12:10,470
that be kept a secret he looked at me he

1424
01:12:15,230 --> 01:12:12,600
says I I'll tell you I'll tell you this

1425
01:12:18,500 --> 01:12:15,240
he says and don't you ever ask me that

1426
01:12:21,560 --> 01:12:18,510
again he says they tell you that if you

1427
01:12:23,780 --> 01:12:21,570
ever tell about this that you will be

1428
01:12:26,330 --> 01:12:23,790
killed and so will every member of your

1429
01:12:31,630 --> 01:12:26,340
family well I said that's how secrets

1430
01:12:36,530 --> 01:12:34,370
do you think he was exaggerating or do

1431
01:12:43,130 --> 01:12:36,540
you think not this man

1432
01:12:46,370 --> 01:12:43,140
no wow he's no exaggeration not an

1433
01:12:47,180 --> 01:12:46,380
exaggerating bone in this guy's body Wow

1434
01:12:51,830 --> 01:12:47,190
amazing

1435
01:12:54,340 --> 01:12:51,840
so the Foo Fighters you when you read

1436
01:12:58,670 --> 01:12:54,350
about that or you hear about that they

1437
01:13:01,070 --> 01:12:58,680
they had no idea according to most there

1438
01:13:02,660 --> 01:13:01,080
was no idea what they were there was

1439
01:13:05,180 --> 01:13:02,670
speculation that they could have been

1440
01:13:06,980 --> 01:13:05,190
from the Germans or what did he think

1441
01:13:12,680 --> 01:13:06,990
did he talk about what he thought they

1442
01:13:17,599 --> 01:13:12,690
were not really he considered them to be

1443
01:13:22,489 --> 01:13:17,609
friendly did they were not hostile

1444
01:13:26,259 --> 01:13:22,499
and they they flew with us like escorts

1445
01:13:30,589 --> 01:13:26,269
and we were glad they were there and

1446
01:13:32,329 --> 01:13:30,599
it's almost like they guided us you know

1447
01:13:33,829 --> 01:13:32,339
I think he said something like it's

1448
01:13:38,779 --> 01:13:33,839
almost like they helped us find our

1449
01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:38,789
targets it was just but he would he

1450
01:13:44,209 --> 01:13:41,010
talked about that very freely but when

1451
01:13:48,049 --> 01:13:44,219
once we got into the subject of UFOs and

1452
01:13:50,089 --> 01:13:48,059
secrets boy did the door ever close and

1453
01:13:51,829 --> 01:13:50,099
he says I can talk about the Foo

1454
01:13:55,579 --> 01:13:51,839
Fighters because everybody knew about

1455
01:14:02,419 --> 01:13:55,589
that I'm not talking out of school but

1456
01:14:08,029 --> 01:14:02,429
he he had my dad had cardiac arrest when

1457
01:14:12,049 --> 01:14:08,039
he was I think 60 years old and survived

1458
01:14:15,049 --> 01:14:12,059
it but when he went to University of

1459
01:14:20,000 --> 01:14:15,059
Alabama Birmingham to have his quintuple

1460
01:14:24,770 --> 01:14:20,010
bypass there were two FBI agents in the

1461
01:14:27,199 --> 01:14:24,780
operating room with him really Wow yeah

1462
01:14:32,359 --> 01:14:27,209
they would not let him be sedated

1463
01:14:36,020 --> 01:14:32,369
without the FBI there so that's the kind

1464
01:14:41,179 --> 01:14:36,030
of secret clearance he had Wow amazing

1465
01:14:43,069 --> 01:14:41,189
so when the the thing that another owed

1466
01:14:46,729 --> 01:14:43,079
just to continue a little bit on the Foo

1467
01:14:48,829 --> 01:14:46,739
Fighters again the speculation is you

1468
01:14:51,139 --> 01:14:48,839
know why did they only happen during

1469
01:14:56,449 --> 01:14:51,149
World War two you didn't hear about them

1470
01:14:58,009 --> 01:14:56,459
afterwards and you know some people I'm

1471
01:15:00,139 --> 01:14:58,019
not saying this is my thoughts at all

1472
01:15:03,979 --> 01:15:00,149
but some people have speculated that

1473
01:15:06,500 --> 01:15:03,989
it's a time travel situation that people

1474
01:15:08,299 --> 01:15:06,510
are focusing on historic events now I

1475
01:15:12,169 --> 01:15:08,309
don't know if I buy into that in any

1476
01:15:14,239 --> 01:15:12,179
type of way or not but it is it's very

1477
01:15:15,560 --> 01:15:14,249
interesting that that just seemed to

1478
01:15:19,069 --> 01:15:15,570
happen during the war and then you

1479
01:15:22,250 --> 01:15:19,079
didn't hear about it after it was like

1480
01:15:25,819 --> 01:15:22,260
gone that's right I mean where did the

1481
01:15:28,879 --> 01:15:25,829
Foo Fighters go why why were they just

1482
01:15:30,729 --> 01:15:28,889
in northern Europe I don't think they

1483
01:15:34,029 --> 01:15:30,739
were ever

1484
01:15:36,279 --> 01:15:34,039
perhaps they were recorded in southern

1485
01:15:40,479 --> 01:15:36,289
Europe and Italy and Greece and places

1486
01:15:43,149 --> 01:15:40,489
like that but they they were definitely

1487
01:15:47,649 --> 01:15:43,159
in in Northern Europe where my dad was

1488
01:15:50,290 --> 01:15:47,659
was flying and you know he said oh yeah

1489
01:15:52,989 --> 01:15:50,300
I saw him all the time there they were

1490
01:15:56,080 --> 01:15:52,999
always there now a lot of people are

1491
01:15:59,679 --> 01:15:56,090
saying that they were similar to orbs

1492
01:16:02,140 --> 01:15:59,689
like and some said they were green and

1493
01:16:04,120 --> 01:16:02,150
you know they're different colors did he

1494
01:16:08,020 --> 01:16:04,130
did he go into detail I know this is

1495
01:16:10,989 --> 01:16:08,030
probably a little redundant for you but

1496
01:16:14,259 --> 01:16:10,999
did he go into detail about them not

1497
01:16:18,100 --> 01:16:14,269
really not really you just called them

1498
01:16:20,350 --> 01:16:18,110
Foo Fighters and it was they were like

1499
01:16:23,560 --> 01:16:20,360
he said they were like flew with us in

1500
01:16:26,049 --> 01:16:23,570
formation like escorts so it was sort of

1501
01:16:28,209 --> 01:16:26,059
the impression I had from him was they

1502
01:16:31,330 --> 01:16:28,219
weren't just buzzing around but they

1503
01:16:33,790 --> 01:16:31,340
were kind of flying I guess like if you

1504
01:16:36,939 --> 01:16:33,800
look out on the wing and you see a light

1505
01:16:39,219 --> 01:16:36,949
out there on the air you know on the end

1506
01:16:42,399 --> 01:16:39,229
of your wing or a landing light it's

1507
01:16:44,969 --> 01:16:42,409
just it's just like seeing a light out

1508
01:16:49,089 --> 01:16:44,979
there and it's just flying with them

1509
01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:49,099
most of my dad's flying wasn't I know

1510
01:16:57,160 --> 01:16:52,570
really young mm-hmm so going back to

1511
01:17:00,239 --> 01:16:57,170
this all the way back to the encounter

1512
01:17:08,379 --> 01:17:00,249
you had and back to the visit from

1513
01:17:12,279 --> 01:17:08,389
RuPaul and Owens Olson I mean it is very

1514
01:17:14,919 --> 01:17:12,289
unusual that they would spend four

1515
01:17:19,270 --> 01:17:14,929
lights in the sky basically that there

1516
01:17:22,479 --> 01:17:19,280
was been seven or eight hours in in the

1517
01:17:26,020 --> 01:17:22,489
home now you said you felt comfortable

1518
01:17:29,949 --> 01:17:26,030
but when they wanted to speak to alone I

1519
01:17:34,390 --> 01:17:29,959
mean that must have been you know for a

1520
01:17:38,279 --> 01:17:34,400
young kid you must have felt a little

1521
01:17:43,359 --> 01:17:38,289
uncomfortable I would think actually not

1522
01:17:44,580 --> 01:17:43,369
rupal was so warm and engaging that that

1523
01:17:48,580 --> 01:17:44,590
he was just like

1524
01:17:53,259 --> 01:17:48,590
you know it was like he become friends

1525
01:17:56,919 --> 01:17:53,269
and so I trusted him and didn't you know

1526
01:18:00,299 --> 01:17:56,929
Olsen you know I'm not so sure trusted

1527
01:18:04,629 --> 01:18:00,309
him I mean because he was always talking

1528
01:18:07,629 --> 01:18:04,639
above my head so to speak and just

1529
01:18:15,279 --> 01:18:07,639
didn't seem to have the the same the

1530
01:18:16,839 --> 01:18:15,289
same degree of empathy but whether maybe

1531
01:18:19,089 --> 01:18:16,849
a happen perhaps he wasn't even

1532
01:18:23,169 --> 01:18:19,099
interested in in the in the case but

1533
01:18:25,359 --> 01:18:23,179
Rupert clearly was interested in wanting

1534
01:18:28,240 --> 01:18:25,369
to get all the information he could but

1535
01:18:31,600 --> 01:18:28,250
no I was I was pretty relaxed by then

1536
01:18:34,149 --> 01:18:31,610
and I was I was wanting to to end it I

1537
01:18:36,490 --> 01:18:34,159
mean I was I was ready to I mean the day

1538
01:18:40,990 --> 01:18:36,500
was shot and obviously wasn't going to

1539
01:18:44,879 --> 01:18:41,000
get to the pool I just wanted to get get

1540
01:18:51,399 --> 01:18:44,889
the heck out of there and and finish up

1541
01:18:53,049 --> 01:18:51,409
yeah Wow so as you moved on you said you

1542
01:18:54,939 --> 01:18:53,059
didn't really talk about this for forty

1543
01:19:01,390 --> 01:18:54,949
years but did you keep a keen interest

1544
01:19:03,910 --> 01:19:01,400
in UFOs oh yes oh yes always you know

1545
01:19:06,459 --> 01:19:03,920
kept up with it you know would read

1546
01:19:10,660 --> 01:19:06,469
about it occasionally buy a book about

1547
01:19:15,430 --> 01:19:10,670
you know and and so i i've kept up with

1548
01:19:19,569 --> 01:19:15,440
it all along and you know i'm i'm

1549
01:19:21,879 --> 01:19:19,579
certainly don't consider myself you know

1550
01:19:24,779 --> 01:19:21,889
an expert I'm not reading you know I'm

1551
01:19:27,549 --> 01:19:24,789
not interested in going on the tour or

1552
01:19:31,359 --> 01:19:27,559
you know going to any conferences or

1553
01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:31,369
anything like that you know I'm happy to

1554
01:19:37,540 --> 01:19:33,530
talk to you in the audience about it

1555
01:19:40,720 --> 01:19:37,550
tonight and share it because it's my

1556
01:19:44,520 --> 01:19:40,730
story and it's the it's the same story I

1557
01:19:48,930 --> 01:19:44,530
told captain ruppelt you know 50

1558
01:19:54,700 --> 01:19:48,940
ever'body years ago 55 or more years ago

1559
01:19:57,350 --> 01:19:54,710
60 years ago is it yeah I'm years ago it

1560
01:20:01,850 --> 01:19:57,360
it's still a very very

1561
01:20:05,780 --> 01:20:01,860
vivid memory I've done some work on

1562
01:20:09,620 --> 01:20:05,790
trying to reconstruct things through

1563
01:20:12,530 --> 01:20:09,630
visualization I've gone back and found

1564
01:20:16,370 --> 01:20:12,540
old pictures of the airport how it used

1565
01:20:18,260 --> 01:20:16,380
to look I've you know the house of

1566
01:20:20,810 --> 01:20:18,270
course that we lived in is no longer

1567
01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:20,820
there it's bulldozed years ago but I've

1568
01:20:25,880 --> 01:20:23,010
gone back and tried to sketch the

1569
01:20:29,450 --> 01:20:25,890
floorplan and to look at some some old

1570
01:20:32,780 --> 01:20:29,460
pictures of the house inside and out and

1571
01:20:37,190 --> 01:20:32,790
in trying to sort of reconstruct the

1572
01:20:41,200 --> 01:20:37,200
events my youngest daughter Laura who I

1573
01:20:44,720 --> 01:20:41,210
think you may have spoken to in the past

1574
01:20:48,050 --> 01:20:44,730
laura is an excellent artist and she

1575
01:20:51,350 --> 01:20:48,060
does she can do anything and in drawing

1576
01:20:54,680 --> 01:20:51,360
so we're going to we're working on a

1577
01:20:56,630 --> 01:20:54,690
collaboration what I'd call sort of not

1578
01:21:00,830 --> 01:20:56,640
not a comic book because it's not funny

1579
01:21:04,270 --> 01:21:00,840
but but an illustrated view of what

1580
01:21:08,510 --> 01:21:04,280
happened so there would be pictures of

1581
01:21:11,390 --> 01:21:08,520
you know a scenes all the scenes that I

1582
01:21:13,760 --> 01:21:11,400
remember vividly to try to you know get

1583
01:21:15,410 --> 01:21:13,770
her to describe I would describe and get

1584
01:21:18,230 --> 01:21:15,420
her to draw it and then we would have a

1585
01:21:20,930 --> 01:21:18,240
narrative that goes with that and and

1586
01:21:21,620 --> 01:21:20,940
that's I mean that's just for my own

1587
01:21:27,020 --> 01:21:21,630
amusement

1588
01:21:28,490 --> 01:21:27,030
really but I think that visual is you

1589
01:21:30,620 --> 01:21:28,500
know my doctorates in educational

1590
01:21:36,140 --> 01:21:30,630
psychology and and and I know that

1591
01:21:40,360 --> 01:21:36,150
visualization is very very important to

1592
01:21:42,470 --> 01:21:40,370
to learning and end to end to memory

1593
01:21:43,700 --> 01:21:42,480
we're getting a thunderstorm here I

1594
01:21:48,070 --> 01:21:43,710
don't know if you heard the clap of

1595
01:21:51,050 --> 01:21:48,080
thunder there but it's just cracked so

1596
01:21:54,110 --> 01:21:51,060
creating those images helps to bring

1597
01:21:56,660 --> 01:21:54,120
back some of the details and I found

1598
01:22:00,620 --> 01:21:56,670
that that my memory seems to improve

1599
01:22:03,350 --> 01:22:00,630
with with the visualization of the

1600
01:22:05,990 --> 01:22:03,360
different scenes of where we were and

1601
01:22:10,520 --> 01:22:06,000
I've got some pretty good embedded

1602
01:22:13,430 --> 01:22:10,530
visuals of of it and because of

1603
01:22:16,160 --> 01:22:13,440
I've thought about it I may not have

1604
01:22:19,939 --> 01:22:16,170
told the story a lot over the years but

1605
01:22:23,419 --> 01:22:19,949
I've thought about it many many times

1606
01:22:27,020 --> 01:22:23,429
in and it's it's because not just at the

1607
01:22:32,209 --> 01:22:27,030
visit but of what caused the visit the

1608
01:22:37,040 --> 01:22:32,219
sighting itself mmm that was that was

1609
01:22:39,859 --> 01:22:37,050
just very very powerful and thrilling to

1610
01:22:42,649 --> 01:22:39,869
see something like that because I've

1611
01:22:44,209 --> 01:22:42,659
never seen anything like it since have

1612
01:22:48,709 --> 01:22:44,219
you had any type of sighting at all

1613
01:22:51,520 --> 01:22:48,719
since that time one or two nights when

1614
01:22:55,580 --> 01:22:51,530
we were living in Pensacola and in the

1615
01:22:58,009 --> 01:22:55,590
early 90s my wife and I went out with

1616
01:23:03,379 --> 01:22:58,019
the MUFON group they would go out to the

1617
01:23:07,310 --> 01:23:03,389
Pensacola Bay Bridge and and look and we

1618
01:23:09,350 --> 01:23:07,320
did we did see a moving light I don't

1619
01:23:12,979 --> 01:23:09,360
know what it was but it wasn't nearly as

1620
01:23:15,169 --> 01:23:12,989
impressive what I saw when I was 12 and

1621
01:23:17,509 --> 01:23:15,179
some of the people you know said they

1622
01:23:22,250 --> 01:23:17,519
saw a lot of things that I'm sure some

1623
01:23:25,609 --> 01:23:22,260
of them did you know but but I try to

1624
01:23:29,239 --> 01:23:25,619
remain a healthy skeptic and you know if

1625
01:23:32,060 --> 01:23:29,249
it's somebody I know and believe I've

1626
01:23:35,629 --> 01:23:32,070
had you know some folks that I've known

1627
01:23:37,819 --> 01:23:35,639
and you know worked with over the years

1628
01:23:41,330 --> 01:23:37,829
and I believe and when they tell me

1629
01:23:44,330 --> 01:23:41,340
something they saw something you know I

1630
01:23:46,640 --> 01:23:44,340
think they're they're probably a lot of

1631
01:23:49,370 --> 01:23:46,650
people like me who had seen things that

1632
01:23:52,640 --> 01:23:49,380
just never really talked about it yeah

1633
01:23:54,469 --> 01:23:52,650
that's true that that's uh I'm sure it's

1634
01:23:56,089 --> 01:23:54,479
a large percentage you know I forgot to

1635
01:23:58,250 --> 01:23:56,099
mention that if anyone's listening live

1636
01:23:59,959 --> 01:23:58,260
and they would like to call in and ask

1637
01:24:02,750 --> 01:23:59,969
our guests a question you're welcome to

1638
01:24:06,279 --> 01:24:02,760
do that that's six oh three nine six

1639
01:24:14,569 --> 01:24:06,289
seven four oh three oh so during the

1640
01:24:20,000 --> 01:24:14,579
late 1980s the Gulf Breeze incident you

1641
01:24:22,250 --> 01:24:20,010
all right yes I'm here okay you know a a

1642
01:24:23,450 --> 01:24:22,260
lot of that a lot of people claim that

1643
01:24:30,410 --> 01:24:23,460
was a hoax

1644
01:24:33,380 --> 01:24:30,420
possibly did you were you paying

1645
01:24:36,229 --> 01:24:33,390
attention to that when it was going on I

1646
01:24:37,060 --> 01:24:36,239
certainly did of course we didn't know

1647
01:24:41,900 --> 01:24:37,070
who it was

1648
01:24:43,700 --> 01:24:41,910
until much later and then much to my

1649
01:24:49,520 --> 01:24:43,710
surprise it turned out to be ed Walters

1650
01:24:51,470 --> 01:24:49,530
and I knew ed Walters just like a real

1651
01:24:55,700 --> 01:24:51,480
estate developer or something right yeah

1652
01:25:02,450 --> 01:24:55,710
yeah a builder a very very nice guy and

1653
01:25:06,380 --> 01:25:02,460
and just a regular businessman we shared

1654
01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:06,390
the same CPA the CPA and I were

1655
01:25:10,340 --> 01:25:08,010
fraternity brothers we known each other

1656
01:25:13,430 --> 01:25:10,350
for years and and I talked to him about

1657
01:25:20,600 --> 01:25:13,440
it and he says yeah he says ed is just

1658
01:25:27,010 --> 01:25:20,610
as level-headed as anybody and so you

1659
01:25:34,450 --> 01:25:30,920
senator mcconnell who was the medical

1660
01:25:37,580 --> 01:25:34,460
examiner there in Escambia County a

1661
01:25:43,190 --> 01:25:37,590
really a wonderful person and

1662
01:25:45,950 --> 01:25:43,200
outstanding physician had you know he

1663
01:25:49,340 --> 01:25:45,960
had seen and and when Fenner when Fenner

1664
01:25:50,870 --> 01:25:49,350
spoke I mean you knew this this is can't

1665
01:25:55,640 --> 01:25:50,880
say it on the air but he's a no-nonsense

1666
01:25:57,140 --> 01:25:55,650
guy he wouldn't make it up you know no

1667
01:26:02,000 --> 01:25:57,150
way Feder McConnell would ever make

1668
01:26:06,080 --> 01:26:02,010
anything up and his sister lived in

1669
01:26:09,709 --> 01:26:06,090
Mississippi and she had a sighting about

1670
01:26:12,260 --> 01:26:09,719
the same time and she was visited by

1671
01:26:15,709 --> 01:26:12,270
some men in black and they threatened

1672
01:26:19,459 --> 01:26:15,719
her and when Fenner told that story I

1673
01:26:23,000 --> 01:26:19,469
believed I absolutely believed sadly

1674
01:26:25,459 --> 01:26:23,010
Fenner was accidentally killed he was a

1675
01:26:27,830 --> 01:26:25,469
great jogger and was jogging across the

1676
01:26:30,380 --> 01:26:27,840
Bob Sykes bridge one day and I guess

1677
01:26:32,720 --> 01:26:30,390
somebody just wasn't looking where they

1678
01:26:35,600 --> 01:26:32,730
were going and ran him down and killed

1679
01:26:43,340 --> 01:26:39,860
so there were there were some people in

1680
01:26:45,920 --> 01:26:43,350
that group that I went and went to

1681
01:26:48,940 --> 01:26:45,930
elementary and high school with and that

1682
01:26:52,430 --> 01:26:48,950
I've known all my life and these are

1683
01:26:55,400 --> 01:26:52,440
these are people that don't don't lie

1684
01:26:58,490 --> 01:26:55,410
and don't tell don't make up stories I

1685
01:27:03,650 --> 01:26:58,500
mean you know this is Pensacola's the

1686
01:27:08,330 --> 01:27:03,660
deep south and that kind of you know

1687
01:27:11,270 --> 01:27:08,340
people that make up tall tales they're

1688
01:27:13,550 --> 01:27:11,280
ostracized and so when these guys come

1689
01:27:14,890 --> 01:27:13,560
out and say they saw something you

1690
01:27:17,420 --> 01:27:14,900
better believe they're telling the truth

1691
01:27:20,360 --> 01:27:17,430
that they saw they saw something they

1692
01:27:25,780 --> 01:27:20,370
couldn't explain now maybe there may be

1693
01:27:31,190 --> 01:27:25,790
an explanation for it besides aliens

1694
01:27:33,230 --> 01:27:31,200
operate equipment but I mean they were

1695
01:27:35,630 --> 01:27:33,240
there are a lot of stories that popped

1696
01:27:38,150 --> 01:27:35,640
up there a lot of stories that popped up

1697
01:27:43,970 --> 01:27:38,160
yeah and so that was that was a

1698
01:27:46,180 --> 01:27:43,980
fascinating time you know people would

1699
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:46,190
say hello it's just mass hysteria and

1700
01:27:52,010 --> 01:27:50,010
all that yeah I mean you you hear you

1701
01:27:55,070 --> 01:27:52,020
hear of ed Walters but there was also a

1702
01:27:57,650 --> 01:27:55,080
lot of people that were witnessing some

1703
01:28:00,620 --> 01:27:57,660
thought went on prominent prominent

1704
01:28:03,410 --> 01:28:00,630
people hmm prominent people in the

1705
01:28:08,630 --> 01:28:03,420
community I mean one one guy I know is

1706
01:28:12,620 --> 01:28:08,640
an Eagle Scout and this guy was never he

1707
01:28:15,560 --> 01:28:12,630
would never tell well here here's the

1708
01:28:17,650 --> 01:28:15,570
thing that seems to happen you know

1709
01:28:21,080 --> 01:28:17,660
because I understand when someone bought

1710
01:28:22,850 --> 01:28:21,090
Eadie Walters house they found a model

1711
01:28:25,160 --> 01:28:22,860
of the craft up underneath some

1712
01:28:29,380 --> 01:28:25,170
insulation in the attic when they were

1713
01:28:32,540 --> 01:28:29,390
changing the heating system you know so

1714
01:28:36,230 --> 01:28:32,550
what seems to happen and I've seen this

1715
01:28:38,210 --> 01:28:36,240
and talked about it before is that yes

1716
01:28:41,840 --> 01:28:38,220
so someone does have a sighting it's

1717
01:28:43,610 --> 01:28:41,850
it's monumental to them and then time

1718
01:28:46,600 --> 01:28:43,620
goes on and they're they're trying to

1719
01:28:50,120 --> 01:28:46,610
like keep it alive or or keep themselves

1720
01:28:52,250 --> 01:28:50,130
in the news or whatever it is

1721
01:28:54,160 --> 01:28:52,260
and then they they seem to go wrong this

1722
01:28:58,030 --> 01:28:54,170
seems to happen to a number of people

1723
01:29:01,910 --> 01:28:58,040
where someone will either hoax or

1724
01:29:05,689 --> 01:29:01,920
exaggerate a story just to keep keep the

1725
01:29:07,490 --> 01:29:05,699
spotlight on them on themselves so it's

1726
01:29:08,750 --> 01:29:07,500
well I can only speculate that's what

1727
01:29:13,760 --> 01:29:08,760
happened with that but I don't really

1728
01:29:18,379 --> 01:29:13,770
know I don't either and and I can't I

1729
01:29:22,669 --> 01:29:18,389
can't be the judge of that I want to be

1730
01:29:27,350 --> 01:29:22,679
but there were enough other people know

1731
01:29:32,870 --> 01:29:27,360
that were that had credible sightings

1732
01:29:39,459 --> 01:29:32,880
that make me believe that at least part

1733
01:29:42,500 --> 01:29:39,469
of what it had said he saw was real so

1734
01:29:45,109 --> 01:29:42,510
whether you know what pressures he felt

1735
01:29:50,629 --> 01:29:45,119
after that I don't know I'm sure it must

1736
01:29:53,930 --> 01:29:50,639
have been extensive but yeah so you

1737
01:29:55,820 --> 01:29:53,940
you've gone this long I'm you paying

1738
01:29:59,000 --> 01:29:55,830
attention to what's going on and the

1739
01:30:01,100 --> 01:29:59,010
UFOs is actually a symposium coming up

1740
01:30:04,430 --> 01:30:01,110
we were talking about really with with

1741
01:30:07,430 --> 01:30:04,440
Alejandro in Florida coming up this year

1742
01:30:08,810 --> 01:30:07,440
it's a it's a real good one have you I

1743
01:30:10,040 --> 01:30:08,820
know you mentioned you went to the

1744
01:30:14,450 --> 01:30:10,050
Christmas party but have you ever

1745
01:30:20,120 --> 01:30:14,460
attended any type of UFO convention of

1746
01:30:21,620 --> 01:30:20,130
any type never have never have well it's

1747
01:30:23,780 --> 01:30:21,630
gonna be a good one this year I just

1748
01:30:26,689 --> 01:30:23,790
can't remember where it is in Florida

1749
01:30:30,010 --> 01:30:26,699
but that's an August a lot of really

1750
01:30:34,820 --> 01:30:30,020
good speakers there so what do you think

1751
01:30:36,800 --> 01:30:34,830
I always like to kind of get people's

1752
01:30:40,850 --> 01:30:36,810
different opinion what do you think they

1753
01:30:43,899 --> 01:30:40,860
are do you think it's a possible it's

1754
01:30:53,290 --> 01:30:43,909
possible that these are extraterrestrial

1755
01:31:01,459 --> 01:30:58,550
think it's probably today what people

1756
01:31:02,780 --> 01:31:01,469
are seeing is probably some kind of

1757
01:31:05,720 --> 01:31:02,790
reverse engineered

1758
01:31:07,730 --> 01:31:05,730
crafts that we've managed to fly or or

1759
01:31:09,740 --> 01:31:07,740
maybe not even reverse-engineered maybe

1760
01:31:12,050 --> 01:31:09,750
it's just something you know in the

1761
01:31:16,220 --> 01:31:12,060
skunkworks that we came up with it that

1762
01:31:18,020 --> 01:31:16,230
looks looks really weird you know when

1763
01:31:23,420 --> 01:31:18,030
we first saw the Stealth's i mean it was

1764
01:31:26,870 --> 01:31:23,430
kind of like whoa look at that so but

1765
01:31:32,920 --> 01:31:26,880
but the old sidings Oh tightening that I

1766
01:31:40,160 --> 01:31:37,190
though those had to be I mean they were

1767
01:31:42,950 --> 01:31:40,170
not Russians they were not our secret

1768
01:31:44,630 --> 01:31:42,960
planes flying around because we didn't

1769
01:31:46,040 --> 01:31:44,640
have anything could do that and really

1770
01:31:51,620 --> 01:31:46,050
we still don't have anything that I know

1771
01:31:55,090 --> 01:31:51,630
of that can do that so I believe that

1772
01:32:00,470 --> 01:31:55,100
the at least the the older sightings

1773
01:32:03,500 --> 01:32:00,480
were extraterrestrial in nature that's

1774
01:32:07,880 --> 01:32:03,510
just the best guess I think I think it's

1775
01:32:11,860 --> 01:32:07,890
the most logical guess and I say that

1776
01:32:14,210 --> 01:32:11,870
without any emotion or you know

1777
01:32:17,600 --> 01:32:14,220
titillation I just really think that's

1778
01:32:19,430 --> 01:32:17,610
that's probably the best guess that you

1779
01:32:22,400 --> 01:32:19,440
know we hadn't been alone - how long

1780
01:32:27,580 --> 01:32:22,410
they've been coming here or whatever who

1781
01:32:31,190 --> 01:32:27,590
knows and but but I suspect it there's

1782
01:32:34,190 --> 01:32:31,200
it's more than just you know idle

1783
01:32:36,620 --> 01:32:34,200
curiosity I mean they they they're here

1784
01:32:37,990 --> 01:32:36,630
if if they're here they're here for a

1785
01:32:41,090 --> 01:32:38,000
reason

1786
01:32:46,340 --> 01:32:41,100
if they're community if they're not

1787
01:32:49,730 --> 01:32:46,350
communicating with us in a public sense

1788
01:32:56,390 --> 01:32:49,740
then there's a reason for that

1789
01:32:59,150 --> 01:32:56,400
I had a I brought this up probably about

1790
01:33:02,720 --> 01:32:59,160
five or six times on the show out of 200

1791
01:33:06,320 --> 01:33:02,730
some odd episodes and that is uh I spoke

1792
01:33:09,950 --> 01:33:06,330
to someone years ago that told me they

1793
01:33:14,500 --> 01:33:09,960
were part of the air force that was

1794
01:33:16,609 --> 01:33:14,510
investigating UFOs during Vietnam and

1795
01:33:20,750 --> 01:33:16,619
which wasn't supposed to be

1796
01:33:26,029 --> 01:33:20,760
happening or I mean anyway the bottom

1797
01:33:28,750 --> 01:33:26,039
line is I asked why were they you know

1798
01:33:32,959 --> 01:33:28,760
what are they and why are they here

1799
01:33:36,290 --> 01:33:32,969
and he said he said because we're a

1800
01:33:38,779 --> 01:33:36,300
petri dish and I mean it was just like a

1801
01:33:42,589 --> 01:33:38,789
blunt statement like that like we're

1802
01:33:46,060 --> 01:33:42,599
being observed so I just thought it was

1803
01:33:49,520 --> 01:33:46,070
an interesting statement whether he was

1804
01:33:55,299 --> 01:33:49,530
biessing or telling the truth it's still

1805
01:33:58,389 --> 01:33:55,309
an interesting thought well there

1806
01:34:02,179 --> 01:33:58,399
there's some pretty pretty smart guys in

1807
01:34:03,739 --> 01:34:02,189
academia that let's just say a little

1808
01:34:07,009 --> 01:34:03,749
bit out of the mainstream because

1809
01:34:13,459 --> 01:34:07,019
mainstream science is extremely

1810
01:34:16,219 --> 01:34:13,469
conservative and non risk-taking but

1811
01:34:20,540 --> 01:34:16,229
there are there are some very bright

1812
01:34:23,629 --> 01:34:20,550
rebels that believe and I happen to

1813
01:34:31,459 --> 01:34:23,639
share this belief that our DNA has been

1814
01:34:35,479 --> 01:34:31,469
modified that you know this you know the

1815
01:34:38,659 --> 01:34:35,489
whole theory of evolution is just is

1816
01:34:43,250 --> 01:34:38,669
something I personally don't find much

1817
01:34:45,589 --> 01:34:43,260
scientific merit for it or logic for it

1818
01:34:48,739 --> 01:34:45,599
you know Homo sapiens when it comes to

1819
01:34:51,229 --> 01:34:48,749
humans I agree with you yeah when it

1820
01:34:55,009 --> 01:34:51,239
comes to homo sapiens

1821
01:34:55,819 --> 01:34:55,019
you know we we appeared very very

1822
01:34:57,709 --> 01:34:55,829
rapidly

1823
01:34:59,899 --> 01:34:57,719
yes about a hundred hundred twenty

1824
01:35:02,479 --> 01:34:59,909
thousand years ago it doesn't make any

1825
01:35:03,949 --> 01:35:02,489
sense I've said that we know this to

1826
01:35:06,830 --> 01:35:03,959
show about UFOs but I've said that a

1827
01:35:11,709 --> 01:35:06,840
couple of times it just seems so quickly

1828
01:35:22,520 --> 01:35:19,100
you know how it was done who knows you

1829
01:35:24,949 --> 01:35:22,530
know was a completely new species it was

1830
01:35:29,389 --> 01:35:24,959
introduced from somewhere or as a

1831
01:35:29,970 --> 01:35:29,399
genetic modification who knows how it

1832
01:35:32,550 --> 01:35:29,980
was

1833
01:35:34,950 --> 01:35:32,560
and you know I'll probably will probably

1834
01:35:38,790 --> 01:35:34,960
never know in our lifetime and I'm not

1835
01:35:43,190 --> 01:35:38,800
sure it makes any difference but you

1836
01:35:46,310 --> 01:35:43,200
know the extinction of Neanderthal and

1837
01:35:49,140 --> 01:35:46,320
you know did Homo sapiens just simply

1838
01:35:52,530 --> 01:35:49,150
it's just a we just vicious killers that

1839
01:35:58,110 --> 01:35:52,540
put these guys out or you know did we

1840
01:36:00,450 --> 01:35:58,120
interbreed with them or you know it's

1841
01:36:03,840 --> 01:36:00,460
just it just happened too quickly and

1842
01:36:05,100 --> 01:36:03,850
and they can you know hypothesize all

1843
01:36:07,350 --> 01:36:05,110
they want but I just think it's

1844
01:36:11,750 --> 01:36:07,360
foolishness I mean it's just it's just

1845
01:36:15,120 --> 01:36:11,760
much it's a much better explanation to

1846
01:36:22,170 --> 01:36:15,130
just think that we are in in essence an

1847
01:36:25,680 --> 01:36:22,180
experiment and you know but mainstream

1848
01:36:28,230 --> 01:36:25,690
science you know or they just they can't

1849
01:36:30,060 --> 01:36:28,240
handle it because because they would be

1850
01:36:31,980 --> 01:36:30,070
wrong you know everything they've

1851
01:36:34,920 --> 01:36:31,990
learned would be wrong yeah they don't

1852
01:36:39,480 --> 01:36:34,930
want to rewrite the textbooks no no it

1853
01:36:43,740 --> 01:36:39,490
it would be humiliating and you know

1854
01:36:49,970 --> 01:36:43,750
their their arrogance is is unbelievable

1855
01:36:54,500 --> 01:36:49,980
so yeah I know you hear a lot about how

1856
01:36:57,930 --> 01:36:54,510
that there are discoveries in

1857
01:36:59,700 --> 01:36:57,940
archaeology that that don't make any

1858
01:37:02,250 --> 01:36:59,710
sense and you just don't hear about them

1859
01:37:06,180 --> 01:37:02,260
there's there's a question up on the

1860
01:37:10,530 --> 01:37:06,190
message board someone wants to know do

1861
01:37:13,280 --> 01:37:10,540
you ever go skywatching now occasionally

1862
01:37:16,590 --> 01:37:13,290
I do I mean when I go out at night I

1863
01:37:20,250 --> 01:37:16,600
always look around but you know I

1864
01:37:26,220 --> 01:37:20,260
haven't I haven't seen anything in about

1865
01:37:29,270 --> 01:37:26,230
25 years so you know I'm not I'm not

1866
01:37:32,010 --> 01:37:29,280
looking looking for anything but yeah

1867
01:37:35,370 --> 01:37:32,020
yeah if I saw something it would be

1868
01:37:41,910 --> 01:37:35,380
great but yeah you know I've had my

1869
01:37:43,600 --> 01:37:41,920
moment I I had my surprise well yeah

1870
01:37:46,810 --> 01:37:43,610
enough for a lifetime

1871
01:37:52,870 --> 01:37:46,820
well you know as since I've had my

1872
01:37:56,860 --> 01:37:52,880
sighting which was only in 2006

1873
01:37:59,440 --> 01:37:56,870
I am constantly looking to this guy and

1874
01:38:01,510 --> 01:37:59,450
I think that's unlike you know an

1875
01:38:03,580 --> 01:38:01,520
average person you know once you have a

1876
01:38:07,180 --> 01:38:03,590
sighting I think it just kind of changes

1877
01:38:10,180 --> 01:38:07,190
the way you think about things and also

1878
01:38:12,220 --> 01:38:10,190
changes the way you observe because I

1879
01:38:14,620 --> 01:38:12,230
think you know the average person is not

1880
01:38:19,920 --> 01:38:14,630
really even looking up in the sky too

1881
01:38:24,160 --> 01:38:19,930
much I would agree

1882
01:38:27,520 --> 01:38:24,170
when I say you know I had my moment 60

1883
01:38:31,000 --> 01:38:27,530
years ago I I kind of feel like I've I

1884
01:38:33,310 --> 01:38:31,010
had enough I mean I don't need to see

1885
01:38:38,320 --> 01:38:33,320
anything else it might frighten me too

1886
01:38:41,560 --> 01:38:38,330
bad yeah really fine I was really really

1887
01:38:44,880 --> 01:38:41,570
scared as a 12 year old really scared

1888
01:38:47,770 --> 01:38:44,890
well kind of it's a new paradigm

1889
01:38:51,340 --> 01:38:47,780
basically when you see something like

1890
01:38:54,010 --> 01:38:51,350
that then everything changes you know I

1891
01:38:55,780 --> 01:38:54,020
mean not not to everybody you know I've

1892
01:38:58,660 --> 01:38:55,790
talked to people that have had major

1893
01:39:00,400 --> 01:38:58,670
sightings and it never they never think

1894
01:39:02,800 --> 01:39:00,410
about it like it just doesn't they don't

1895
01:39:05,110 --> 01:39:02,810
really care you know I mean it surprises

1896
01:39:07,680 --> 01:39:05,120
the heck out of me because I think it's

1897
01:39:14,020 --> 01:39:07,690
probably one of the most important

1898
01:39:19,980 --> 01:39:14,030
questions to be answered I agree you

1899
01:39:22,990 --> 01:39:19,990
know but my sighting was certainly not

1900
01:39:25,660 --> 01:39:23,000
for me it was very exciting but when you

1901
01:39:27,400 --> 01:39:25,670
when you put it among all the sightings

1902
01:39:30,190 --> 01:39:27,410
that you know where people have actually

1903
01:39:33,160 --> 01:39:30,200
seen a craft low you know at a low level

1904
01:39:37,480 --> 01:39:33,170
or in a field or you know they come over

1905
01:39:41,830 --> 01:39:37,490
the house or or you know I mean my mind

1906
01:39:43,420 --> 01:39:41,840
mind just pales by comparison and and

1907
01:39:47,830 --> 01:39:43,430
certainly I would love to see something

1908
01:39:52,030 --> 01:39:47,840
like that but I've seen enough to know

1909
01:39:57,040 --> 01:39:52,040
that they're real and to me the rest is

1910
01:40:03,580 --> 01:40:00,880
we're not alone there you know are there

1911
01:40:05,380 --> 01:40:03,590
more than one type out there I mean if

1912
01:40:08,080 --> 01:40:05,390
there's one type there's more than one

1913
01:40:13,390 --> 01:40:08,090
and are we being visited by more than

1914
01:40:18,030 --> 01:40:13,400
one probably so and will they ever make

1915
01:40:20,410 --> 01:40:18,040
themselves known to us maybe maybe not

1916
01:40:22,960 --> 01:40:20,420
maybe in the past they have made

1917
01:40:29,290 --> 01:40:22,970
themselves known and that knowledge was

1918
01:40:31,630 --> 01:40:29,300
lost certainly some of the the old art

1919
01:40:33,790 --> 01:40:31,640
that's you know found from you know

1920
01:40:36,340 --> 01:40:33,800
thousands of years ago makes you you

1921
01:40:38,650 --> 01:40:36,350
wonder if they really didn't have some

1922
01:40:40,270 --> 01:40:38,660
serious contact with these these folks

1923
01:40:42,820 --> 01:40:40,280
yeah there was a question that came up

1924
01:40:44,800 --> 01:40:42,830
on the message board someone wanted to

1925
01:40:49,180 --> 01:40:44,810
know what is your thoughts on the

1926
01:40:51,340 --> 01:40:49,190
ancient ancient alien theories probably

1927
01:40:54,430 --> 01:40:51,350
so I mean if they're here if they you

1928
01:40:58,210 --> 01:40:54,440
know did they just show up in 47 yeah

1929
01:41:01,410 --> 01:40:58,220
for the first time I don't think so

1930
01:41:05,410 --> 01:41:01,420
well there I mean there were sightings

1931
01:41:08,950 --> 01:41:05,420
all around before that so when you go

1932
01:41:11,980 --> 01:41:08,960
back you can find them so how long have

1933
01:41:15,370 --> 01:41:11,990
they been coming probably a long long

1934
01:41:19,360 --> 01:41:15,380
time yeah Jean Pele and another author

1935
01:41:24,730 --> 01:41:19,370
put together a book fairly recently that

1936
01:41:26,890 --> 01:41:24,740
is about ancient sightings which is I I

1937
01:41:30,730 --> 01:41:26,900
would really like to read that that's

1938
01:41:33,220 --> 01:41:30,740
very fascinating to me and yeah if they

1939
01:41:35,700 --> 01:41:33,230
visiting now they could have been

1940
01:41:40,060 --> 01:41:35,710
visiting a million years ago who knows

1941
01:41:43,180 --> 01:41:40,070
they could they absolutely could have

1942
01:41:47,890 --> 01:41:43,190
and who knows what what they look like

1943
01:41:51,760 --> 01:41:47,900
I mean some of the the pictures I saw I

1944
01:41:53,830 --> 01:41:51,770
don't know where Eadie ruffled gottoms

1945
01:41:58,720 --> 01:41:53,840
but they were there was some pretty

1946
01:42:00,910 --> 01:41:58,730
scary pretty pretty scary critters that

1947
01:42:04,900 --> 01:42:00,920
he showed me pictures of and I didn't

1948
01:42:07,720 --> 01:42:04,910
ever want to meet them tell you that now

1949
01:42:08,890 --> 01:42:07,730
when you were lets going back to that we

1950
01:42:10,689 --> 01:42:08,900
have a lot of people that are just

1951
01:42:15,570 --> 01:42:10,699
joining the show now

1952
01:42:20,350 --> 01:42:15,580
and so going back to that this was a

1953
01:42:22,180 --> 01:42:20,360
notebook that you were shown and would

1954
01:42:23,800 --> 01:42:22,190
you say pardon me would you say that

1955
01:42:25,900 --> 01:42:23,810
there were a lot of pictures of

1956
01:42:29,830 --> 01:42:25,910
so-called aliens that some of them were

1957
01:42:32,800 --> 01:42:29,840
just abstracts from comic books and

1958
01:42:37,209 --> 01:42:32,810
things like that yeah it was the real it

1959
01:42:40,450 --> 01:42:37,219
was a real mix real mix I mean you know

1960
01:42:42,490 --> 01:42:40,460
it kind of looked like Creature from the

1961
01:42:44,890 --> 01:42:42,500
Black Lagoon or something like that or

1962
01:42:49,600 --> 01:42:44,900
lizard man and some looked more like

1963
01:42:52,320 --> 01:42:49,610
insects and and some just didn't didn't

1964
01:42:56,790 --> 01:42:52,330
seem to make didn't look like anything

1965
01:43:00,280 --> 01:42:56,800
but I do remember the the little guy

1966
01:43:03,970 --> 01:43:00,290
gray fell off on the on the table and

1967
01:43:09,189 --> 01:43:03,980
and that that that that was a vivid

1968
01:43:10,900 --> 01:43:09,199
image in my mind and special in 1956 I

1969
01:43:13,930 --> 01:43:10,910
don't think I've ever seen that before

1970
01:43:16,330 --> 01:43:13,940
yeah that wasn't really being shown you

1971
01:43:18,520 --> 01:43:16,340
know not like the alien autopsy film

1972
01:43:21,880 --> 01:43:18,530
that was a hoax or anything like that

1973
01:43:24,220 --> 01:43:21,890
you know this is going back but what

1974
01:43:26,500 --> 01:43:24,230
even though it was a hoax it was it was

1975
01:43:34,780 --> 01:43:26,510
darn close to what what he had a picture

1976
01:43:39,390 --> 01:43:34,790
of well it was it was strange very very

1977
01:43:43,419 --> 01:43:39,400
strange but my whole family is is

1978
01:43:47,770 --> 01:43:43,429
interested in the subject matter both

1979
01:43:49,900 --> 01:43:47,780
both my daughters and my son have you

1980
01:43:57,250 --> 01:43:49,910
know seen things in the sky that they

1981
01:43:59,800 --> 01:43:57,260
thought were were there they've you know

1982
01:44:03,479 --> 01:43:59,810
we don't have any evidence or you know

1983
01:44:06,490 --> 01:44:03,489
photographs or anything like that but

1984
01:44:08,410 --> 01:44:06,500
they're they're very open to the idea

1985
01:44:12,130 --> 01:44:08,420
and I think because we raised them to be

1986
01:44:16,419 --> 01:44:12,140
open-minded and to to the possibility

1987
01:44:20,229 --> 01:44:16,429
that this is you know what we what we

1988
01:44:23,270 --> 01:44:20,239
perceive to be reality may not be quite

1989
01:44:29,330 --> 01:44:23,280
exactly what we suppose it is

1990
01:44:31,940 --> 01:44:29,340
so they have been been been part of the

1991
01:44:34,400 --> 01:44:31,950
story I mean they've shared the story

1992
01:44:36,710 --> 01:44:34,410
with them of course and that's that's

1993
01:44:39,290 --> 01:44:36,720
how you know my daughter gagas got me to

1994
01:44:42,950 --> 01:44:39,300
come out of the closet so to speak and

1995
01:44:44,780 --> 01:44:42,960
be open about it how old was your

1996
01:44:48,860 --> 01:44:44,790
daughter when you told her the one that

1997
01:44:51,260 --> 01:44:48,870
has interests in you know in UFOs and

1998
01:44:57,260 --> 01:44:51,270
MUFON and all that how old was she when

1999
01:44:59,920 --> 01:44:57,270
you told her the story I say she she was

2000
01:45:02,450 --> 01:44:59,930
not in college yet so she must have been

2001
01:45:04,810 --> 01:45:02,460
she must have been in high school

2002
01:45:13,850 --> 01:45:04,820
mom's been like a senior in high school

2003
01:45:16,570 --> 01:45:13,860
when we went to the went to the the

2004
01:45:19,100 --> 01:45:16,580
Christmas party that was held by MUFON

2005
01:45:25,750 --> 01:45:19,110
so she was when she was the youngest

2006
01:45:28,310 --> 01:45:25,760
person in the MUFON group and really

2007
01:45:30,020 --> 01:45:28,320
that was that was very fortunate because

2008
01:45:33,980 --> 01:45:30,030
I I don't know if I ever would have

2009
01:45:39,710 --> 01:45:33,990
really opened up about it but meeting

2010
01:45:43,400 --> 01:45:39,720
meeting the the other people and that

2011
01:45:46,250 --> 01:45:43,410
were involved and it was really

2012
01:45:50,240 --> 01:45:46,260
insightful and helpful to me to

2013
01:45:54,380 --> 01:45:50,250
recognize what what had happened it was

2014
01:45:57,140 --> 01:45:54,390
not just a quirk of fate but and the

2015
01:46:00,020 --> 01:45:57,150
subsequent research that I've done by

2016
01:46:01,780 --> 01:46:00,030
being able to thank goodness again for

2017
01:46:04,760 --> 01:46:01,790
the internet that I was able to

2018
01:46:07,070 --> 01:46:04,770
recognize and identify the two officers

2019
01:46:08,780 --> 01:46:07,080
who came to see me someone wanted to

2020
01:46:11,750 --> 01:46:08,790
know earlier they had a message up on

2021
01:46:14,150 --> 01:46:11,760
the board and wanted to ask you if you

2022
01:46:14,680 --> 01:46:14,160
were a hundred percent sure that's who

2023
01:46:18,940 --> 01:46:14,690
it was

2024
01:46:29,480 --> 01:46:18,950
100 percent 100 percent

2025
01:46:35,480 --> 01:46:29,490
Wow yeah amazing oh I would say as far

2026
01:46:37,009 --> 01:46:35,490
as lieutenant Olsen the guy I saw the

2027
01:46:41,089 --> 01:46:37,019
picture I was a dead ringer

2028
01:46:44,569 --> 01:46:41,099
now there's only one picture of Olson I

2029
01:46:48,080 --> 01:46:44,579
could ever find on anywhere so I don't

2030
01:46:51,410 --> 01:46:48,090
have all that rope has multiple pictures

2031
01:46:54,520 --> 01:46:51,420
at different stages of his career and

2032
01:46:58,759 --> 01:46:54,530
and so when I say it was a truffled

2033
01:47:01,759 --> 01:46:58,769
ain't no doubt in my mind that was him

2034
01:47:06,140 --> 01:47:01,769
mm-hmm it was him

2035
01:47:09,919 --> 01:47:06,150
no question no question in my mind yeah

2036
01:47:11,750 --> 01:47:09,929
yeah well you know this has been really

2037
01:47:14,319 --> 01:47:11,760
interesting we still a little while to

2038
01:47:17,120 --> 01:47:14,329
go here but I think one of the most

2039
01:47:23,239 --> 01:47:17,130
interesting parts of your story is your

2040
01:47:26,390 --> 01:47:23,249
father that basically when he was

2041
01:47:28,419 --> 01:47:26,400
threatened to never talk about UFOs I

2042
01:47:32,270 --> 01:47:28,429
mean it must have really sparked your

2043
01:47:36,979 --> 01:47:32,280
curiosity enough to want to you know get

2044
01:47:40,600 --> 01:47:36,989
more information out of him it did but

2045
01:47:45,290 --> 01:47:40,610
but he made it clear that that was a

2046
01:47:51,259 --> 01:47:45,300
closed area yeah and we weren't going to

2047
01:47:59,959 --> 01:47:51,269
go there in discussions but he he was

2048
01:48:05,509 --> 01:47:59,969
kind of a spooky guy and you know he he

2049
01:48:12,109 --> 01:48:05,519
just never talked much about anything

2050
01:48:18,790 --> 01:48:12,119
until late in life he never talked about

2051
01:48:21,890 --> 01:48:18,800
what he did during the war very much

2052
01:48:24,830 --> 01:48:21,900
typical of that generation the great

2053
01:48:26,899 --> 01:48:24,840
generation yeah we're doing our jobs and

2054
01:48:32,319 --> 01:48:26,909
that was it well they were they were

2055
01:48:36,529 --> 01:48:32,329
doing more than just jobs these were

2056
01:48:41,709 --> 01:48:36,539
remarkable people and you know how he

2057
01:48:45,680 --> 01:48:41,719
survived you know to two plane crashes

2058
01:48:49,380 --> 01:48:45,690
we're amazing basically basically they

2059
01:48:56,550 --> 01:48:49,390
were shot down but

2060
01:48:58,470 --> 01:48:56,560
he was he was a real tough guy Purple

2061
01:49:01,080 --> 01:48:58,480
Heart wounded I mean you know he said oh

2062
01:49:04,620 --> 01:49:01,090
yeah we were all shot up because oh oh

2063
01:49:06,810 --> 01:49:04,630
yeah we all got shot but you know took

2064
01:49:10,500 --> 01:49:06,820
her we took our lumps but we didn't I

2065
01:49:12,600 --> 01:49:10,510
never lost anybody he was really really

2066
01:49:15,900 --> 01:49:12,610
proud of that he said everybody wanted

2067
01:49:19,470 --> 01:49:15,910
to fly with him in fact in 12 o'clock

2068
01:49:21,750 --> 01:49:19,480
high the movie there was an incident

2069
01:49:26,790 --> 01:49:21,760
where I think they had the chaplain or

2070
01:49:30,210 --> 01:49:26,800
somebody was smuggled on board too

2071
01:49:33,870 --> 01:49:30,220
because they always wanted to see the

2072
01:49:36,150 --> 01:49:33,880
the bombs drop and they they had a rough

2073
01:49:39,420 --> 01:49:36,160
time or almost got shot down or whatever

2074
01:49:43,110 --> 01:49:39,430
it was and that actually happened to my

2075
01:49:48,810 --> 01:49:43,120
dad when they were on a bombing mission

2076
01:49:50,820 --> 01:49:48,820
and they were shot up pretty bad by I

2077
01:49:53,610 --> 01:49:50,830
measure between the flak and the

2078
01:49:57,150 --> 01:49:53,620
Messerschmitts he said they were down to

2079
01:49:59,580 --> 01:49:57,160
two engines and and just limping and he

2080
01:50:01,800 --> 01:49:59,590
he said he went on the PA and he said

2081
01:50:06,120 --> 01:50:01,810
okay guys he says we got we got three

2082
01:50:12,210 --> 01:50:06,130
choices one he says we can bail out now

2083
01:50:14,430 --> 01:50:12,220
and be prisoners of war two we can fly

2084
01:50:16,950 --> 01:50:14,440
to the chanting you know get to the the

2085
01:50:19,230 --> 01:50:16,960
channel and and try to ditch in the

2086
01:50:22,290 --> 01:50:19,240
channel and hope they'll pick us up or

2087
01:50:26,010 --> 01:50:22,300
three we can just hold on for dear life

2088
01:50:29,760 --> 01:50:26,020
and try to get back to dry land and then

2089
01:50:33,690 --> 01:50:29,770
he says if it was unanimous loud vote

2090
01:50:36,630 --> 01:50:33,700
get us back home it is more to jump out

2091
01:50:38,430 --> 01:50:36,640
they didn't want a ditch they wanted to

2092
01:50:40,410 --> 01:50:38,440
get back home well he said when they

2093
01:50:42,390 --> 01:50:40,420
came across the coast of England

2094
01:50:47,130 --> 01:50:42,400
actually I think he said they were up

2095
01:50:50,640 --> 01:50:47,140
north in Scotland he said we were about

2096
01:50:52,710 --> 01:50:50,650
a hundred feet above the treeline and he

2097
01:50:54,900 --> 01:50:52,720
says with no way were we getting back to

2098
01:50:57,360 --> 01:50:54,910
base so he said I was going to have to

2099
01:50:59,970 --> 01:50:57,370
put it down and he said you know it was

2100
01:51:02,610 --> 01:50:59,980
a big old swampy area he said so I found

2101
01:51:03,070 --> 01:51:02,620
I said looking you know he said I gotta

2102
01:51:06,040 --> 01:51:03,080
find me

2103
01:51:08,680 --> 01:51:06,050
two big trees and so he went between two

2104
01:51:12,310 --> 01:51:08,690
big trees so it would shear off the

2105
01:51:16,330 --> 01:51:12,320
wings and the fuselage would just go go

2106
01:51:18,160 --> 01:51:16,340
forward and and so he said just just as

2107
01:51:22,150 --> 01:51:18,170
we came in I told everybody said okay

2108
01:51:24,670 --> 01:51:22,160
hold on and duck and he said we the the

2109
01:51:27,220 --> 01:51:24,680
copilot the Navigator nod ducked he says

2110
01:51:30,850 --> 01:51:27,230
a good thing we did because the the

2111
01:51:32,410 --> 01:51:30,860
water from the swamp blew the windshield

2112
01:51:34,630 --> 01:51:32,420
over their heads it would have

2113
01:51:37,870 --> 01:51:34,640
decapitated them had they been looking

2114
01:51:41,230 --> 01:51:37,880
up and he said of course the whole the

2115
01:51:43,750 --> 01:51:41,240
whole plane was filled with water and in

2116
01:51:47,770 --> 01:51:43,760
mud and but it stopped he said pretty

2117
01:51:49,960 --> 01:51:47,780
pretty quickly and they had I believe I

2118
01:51:51,640 --> 01:51:49,970
never can remember it was 11 or 12 and

2119
01:51:54,250 --> 01:51:51,650
crew but let's just say for the sake of

2120
01:51:55,870 --> 01:51:54,260
arguments 11-man crew so he said they

2121
01:51:57,750 --> 01:51:55,880
had a they had a drill that they had

2122
01:52:00,250 --> 01:51:57,760
worked on if they ever had that happen

2123
01:52:04,960 --> 01:52:00,260
everybody would get out and assemble

2124
01:52:07,690 --> 01:52:04,970
about 50 meters in front of the fuselage

2125
01:52:10,090 --> 01:52:07,700
in front of the nose so he said

2126
01:52:11,920 --> 01:52:10,100
everybody kind of you know bailed out of

2127
01:52:15,310 --> 01:52:11,930
course they had no no communications

2128
01:52:18,010 --> 01:52:15,320
because everything was shot and so he

2129
01:52:20,650 --> 01:52:18,020
said they all they all piled piled out

2130
01:52:23,410 --> 01:52:20,660
and you know everybody seemed to be ok

2131
01:52:25,300 --> 01:52:23,420
and look he looked at everybody and

2132
01:52:28,900 --> 01:52:25,310
everybody was coated in mud he said it

2133
01:52:32,620 --> 01:52:28,910
was like a minstrel show this is like

2134
01:52:36,010 --> 01:52:32,630
you know we're all dark and so he

2135
01:52:39,850 --> 01:52:36,020
counted he's ok let's count 1 2 3 4 5 6

2136
01:52:41,740 --> 01:52:39,860
count all the way 1112 no that can't be

2137
01:52:44,620 --> 01:52:41,750
right so I will count one more time

2138
01:52:48,430 --> 01:52:44,630
yeah they had an extra one on board so

2139
01:52:51,310 --> 01:52:48,440
he counted again in 1112 so he pulls out

2140
01:52:55,870 --> 01:52:51,320
his Colt 45 and says don't anybody move

2141
01:52:58,900 --> 01:52:55,880
we got a freaking saboteur on board this

2142
01:53:04,090 --> 01:52:58,910
one guy said commander commander Gaines

2143
01:53:07,630 --> 01:53:04,100
it's it's me so-and-so he says uh I the

2144
01:53:10,240 --> 01:53:07,640
guy's stuck me on Oh II told him he said

2145
01:53:11,770 --> 01:53:10,250
he said I always wanted to go on a

2146
01:53:14,140 --> 01:53:11,780
mission because all I did was load the

2147
01:53:16,990 --> 01:53:14,150
bombs and I wanted to see what happened

2148
01:53:20,170 --> 01:53:17,000
I promise

2149
01:53:23,620 --> 01:53:20,180
so away weren't marshalled I'll never do

2150
01:53:23,890 --> 01:53:23,630
it again so my dad's okay don't ever do

2151
01:53:26,350 --> 01:53:23,900
it

2152
01:53:30,660 --> 01:53:26,360
and that seen something similar to that

2153
01:53:34,570 --> 01:53:30,670
was in 12 o'clock high movie about that

2154
01:53:36,190 --> 01:53:34,580
going back all the way back we have a

2155
01:53:38,560 --> 01:53:36,200
question up on the message board I think

2156
01:53:41,740 --> 01:53:38,570
a pretty good one and we only have about

2157
01:53:44,620 --> 01:53:41,750
five minutes left here but going back to

2158
01:53:49,000 --> 01:53:44,630
the videos that you were shown by the

2159
01:53:51,790 --> 01:53:49,010
two Air Force officers can you describe

2160
01:53:54,310 --> 01:53:51,800
what they actually showed you you know

2161
01:53:56,740 --> 01:53:54,320
some you said you've seen before but

2162
01:53:59,530 --> 01:53:56,750
were there some like really interesting

2163
01:54:01,600 --> 01:53:59,540
ones this goes back to 1956 so there

2164
01:54:03,430 --> 01:54:01,610
couldn't have been well actually there

2165
01:54:07,090 --> 01:54:03,440
there was quite a bit of filming in the

2166
01:54:08,860 --> 01:54:07,100
52 and stuff like that but can you

2167
01:54:11,440 --> 01:54:08,870
describe more of what you saw

2168
01:54:14,890 --> 01:54:11,450
do you remember well these these were

2169
01:54:18,160 --> 01:54:14,900
all films you know it was a film they

2170
01:54:20,380 --> 01:54:18,170
showed me there was no video in those

2171
01:54:21,850 --> 01:54:20,390
days a lot of men films yeah I know was

2172
01:54:24,730 --> 01:54:21,860
the projector in the scroll

2173
01:54:29,260 --> 01:54:24,740
you know projector and and it was a film

2174
01:54:32,860 --> 01:54:29,270
of a film and and the film quality was

2175
01:54:35,170 --> 01:54:32,870
not good I mean it was jerky and and you

2176
01:54:38,590 --> 01:54:35,180
would you could see the objects you know

2177
01:54:40,270 --> 01:54:38,600
moving around and and it was more more

2178
01:54:42,340 --> 01:54:40,280
trying to find out is that is that

2179
01:54:45,420 --> 01:54:42,350
similar to what you saw they were trying

2180
01:54:49,110 --> 01:54:45,430
to get a visualization of what I saw

2181
01:54:52,810 --> 01:54:49,120
they never actually showed me anything

2182
01:54:57,190 --> 01:54:52,820
that was like what I saw so well it's a

2183
01:54:59,410 --> 01:54:57,200
light it's bright and you know some of

2184
01:55:01,900 --> 01:54:59,420
some of the shapes were were kind of a

2185
01:55:08,080 --> 01:55:01,910
little bit oblong looking that we're

2186
01:55:10,600 --> 01:55:08,090
moving but I had I had seen I guess in

2187
01:55:12,370 --> 01:55:10,610
the movie or something somewhere I had

2188
01:55:14,010 --> 01:55:12,380
seen one of those films because I

2189
01:55:18,700 --> 01:55:14,020
remember saying oh I've seen that before

2190
01:55:20,260 --> 01:55:18,710
but that's not what I saw and I wish I

2191
01:55:24,790 --> 01:55:20,270
could remember everything

2192
01:55:27,700 --> 01:55:24,800
they showed me but it was it was a full

2193
01:55:30,489 --> 01:55:27,710
reel I mean it is like a newsreel of you

2194
01:55:33,459 --> 01:55:30,499
know one and one after another

2195
01:55:37,450 --> 01:55:33,469
and there was nothing in between that I

2196
01:55:42,370 --> 01:55:37,460
recall like okay this is Los Alamos 1948

2197
01:55:44,560 --> 01:55:42,380
this is Topeka Kansas 1952 say what it

2198
01:55:46,859 --> 01:55:44,570
was it was just here's here's the raw

2199
01:55:49,529 --> 01:55:46,869
data is what about this what about that

2200
01:55:51,759 --> 01:55:49,539
well I'd love to see that real today I

2201
01:55:53,950 --> 01:55:51,769
wouldn't I wouldn't I'd love to see the

2202
01:55:57,879 --> 01:55:53,960
feel notes and and everything that they

2203
01:56:00,790 --> 01:55:57,889
had they don't destroy that stuff we

2204
01:56:07,870 --> 01:56:00,800
know that it's it's it's it's in a vault

2205
01:56:10,719 --> 01:56:07,880
somewhere where we don't know we you

2206
01:56:14,319 --> 01:56:10,729
know try I'm trying to find out where

2207
01:56:16,649 --> 01:56:14,329
those records might be I understand that

2208
01:56:21,040 --> 01:56:16,659
that captain ruffles

2209
01:56:22,839 --> 01:56:21,050
personal notes and records actually at

2210
01:56:27,669 --> 01:56:22,849
one time and they may still be at the

2211
01:56:29,799 --> 01:56:27,679
Hynek center i've community called them

2212
01:56:31,600 --> 01:56:29,809
written to them and and i can't get an

2213
01:56:36,939 --> 01:56:31,610
answer nobody ever answers the phone

2214
01:56:40,149 --> 01:56:36,949
nobody ever responds to messages so I

2215
01:56:41,919 --> 01:56:40,159
think there's a retired I can't remember

2216
01:56:44,319 --> 01:56:41,929
his name offhand but there's a retired

2217
01:56:47,560 --> 01:56:44,329
professor who has written a very

2218
01:56:49,779 --> 01:56:47,570
exhaustive book on on the subject and

2219
01:56:51,850 --> 01:56:49,789
probably has more information on robot

2220
01:56:56,649 --> 01:56:51,860
than anybody else but I've been unable

2221
01:56:59,290 --> 01:56:56,659
to get in contact with him so if anybody

2222
01:57:03,189 --> 01:56:59,300
you know out in the audience knows some

2223
01:57:07,270 --> 01:57:03,199
of these guys that are prominent that

2224
01:57:09,850 --> 01:57:07,280
could could help me find those notes I'd

2225
01:57:12,520 --> 01:57:09,860
love to see I'd love to hear the the

2226
01:57:14,259 --> 01:57:12,530
reel-to-reel I'd love to hear I'd like

2227
01:57:16,719 --> 01:57:14,269
to hear my twelve-year-old voice telling

2228
01:57:18,850 --> 01:57:16,729
the story and I'd like to see the I'd

2229
01:57:22,540 --> 01:57:18,860
like to see the scrapbooks one more time

2230
01:57:25,930 --> 01:57:22,550
and see how much is real and how much is

2231
01:57:27,910 --> 01:57:25,940
what I may have imagined in 60 years

2232
01:57:30,520 --> 01:57:27,920
since then right so if anyone's out

2233
01:57:34,209 --> 01:57:30,530
there listening that can somehow get any

2234
01:57:35,529 --> 01:57:34,219
of this access or stumble across it they

2235
01:57:37,560 --> 01:57:35,539
can always get a hold of me and I can

2236
01:57:41,169 --> 01:57:37,570
reach out to you so thank you so much

2237
01:57:42,790 --> 01:57:41,179
for all show this evening it's a it's a

2238
01:57:43,660 --> 01:57:42,800
pleasure I hope I didn't talk your ear

2239
01:57:46,050 --> 01:57:43,670
off

2240
01:57:48,700 --> 01:57:46,060
well that's what you're supposed to do

2241
01:57:51,040 --> 01:57:48,710
well it was it was great being able to

2242
01:57:52,690 --> 01:57:51,050
share and I'm sure I must have left

2243
01:57:56,170 --> 01:57:52,700
something out along the way but I've

2244
01:57:58,920 --> 01:57:56,180
tried to be as comprehensive as I could

2245
01:58:01,450 --> 01:57:58,930
yeah I was great all right thanks a lot

2246
01:58:04,750 --> 01:58:01,460
you're welcome Martin and thank you for

2247
01:58:06,700 --> 01:58:04,760
having me on take care bye bye bye all

2248
01:58:08,440 --> 01:58:06,710
right so that's it for our show this

2249
01:58:11,770 --> 01:58:08,450
evening thanks so much for supporting

2250
01:58:14,830 --> 01:58:11,780
the show or listening live and we'll be

2251
01:58:19,330 --> 01:58:14,840
back at the same time next week right

2252
01:58:21,430 --> 01:58:19,340
here on podcast UFO or PSN radio and I'm

2253
01:58:23,980 --> 01:58:21,440
not sure how our guest is next week I do

2254
01:58:27,550 --> 01:58:23,990
not have a confirmation but if you pay

2255
01:58:29,230 --> 01:58:27,560
attention to podcast UFO on Sunday I

2256
01:58:30,700 --> 01:58:29,240
will have the new guest posted then